Albanian Becomes Official Language in Macedonia
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  • Albanians make up 25% of population in Macedonia. I read somewhere that Albanians made almost 50% of population in Athens in the early 20th century. I can't seem to confirm that information now. Can anybody confirm this?
  • I think it's an unnecessary thing. Albanians already had Albanian as official in municipalities where they make up majority or significant minority. They just used political crisis in Macedonia to accomplish one of their goals. Everybody knows they're final goal is to secede from Macedonia and eventually unite with Albania, as it was proven in 2001 and 2015. I simply don't see a reason for this.
  • @balkanizer
    Albanians make barely 18% in Macedonia..
  • edited January 14
    @tobi34

    could be. the number i quoted is from al-jazeera article (in BCHS):
    http://balkans.aljazeera.net/vijesti/albanski-postaje-drugi-sluzbeni-jezik-u-makedoniji
    the reuters article above gives even higher number (one third of population).

    but even 18% is a fairly significant minority. serbs were a constitutional nation in croatia prior to 1991 at 15%. and so are croats in bosnia nowadays, at 17%.
  • edited January 14
    I was reading a few weeks ago memoirs by Svetozar Vukmanović Tempo, "Revolucija koja teče" ("Rrevolution That Flows" is a literal translation). In 1942, Communist Party of Yugoslavia sent him to reset the uprising in Macedonia, which wasn't very active. He managed to organize things fairly well, Macedonia was liberated from the Axis by the late Fall of 1944. 

    Tempo was of course a pretty extreme communist ideologue, so you can't really take him literally, but what struck me was a mess that was that region at the time.

    Macedonians, Bulgarians, Greeks, Albanians and to a large extent, Serbs,  EACH had in the region: 
    a) an armed communist group
    b) an armed reactionary nationalist fraction (with Bulgarian reactionary forces officially fighting on the side of Axis).

    Italians were there as well until capitulation, and British were very much involved (attempting to unite communist Greeks and nationalist Greeks). 

    Now, you would think that at least communists of each of those nations collaborated, right? That was true only to a fairly limited extent.

    Boy, what an insanity of a situation that was. I bet even contemporary Syrians and Libyans would be scratching their heads. 
  • @balkanizer
    Albanians refuse to make a new census because they know they are less than 20% (even doe they brag everywhere how they're more than 50%) and the Ohrid framework agreement will lose its meaning. According to the Ohrid framework agreement Albanians are said to be around 25% (now that was in 2001) and there hasn't been a new census since, because they can't justify it like they "did" back then when they made the Turks, Gypsies and the Torbeshi (Macedonian muslims) register themselves as Albanians. 


  • I say give the language.  I cannot be a hypocrite.  If it keeps the Shqip a bit quiet, it's worth it.
  • It's not a done deal just yet. Our president can veto the law on the grounds it's unconstitutional. It would then be returned to parliament. If another parliamentary vote supports it, then opposition to the law can challenge it in the Constitutional Court. 
  • Albanian is just more Serb, right?
  • @texczech82

    Can you clarify that?
  • @texczech82 I sure hope you're trolling...
  • Just foolin' around. What's up with all the hate for Albanians? I'm fairly ignorant on the subject. I only know two things about Albanians: Eliza Dushku, and apparently most Albanians in America run "Italian" pizza shops. 
  • Albanians have national ideology that produces conflicts. They claim they're desendants of Illyrians, ancient tribe group dominant in the Balkans. According to them the rest of us are Slavic intruders on their land, especially Serbs and Macedonians. They have this idea of Ethnic or "Natural" Albania that would include almost half of Macedonia, third of Montenegro, Serbian province of Kosovo and some smaller parts of central Serbia and smaller parts of Greece. All nations on Balkans have similar ideas among certain groups, but Albanians are active on realization of such plans. I don't know any Albanians personally, so I can't really go into details, but it seems that they are bad at integrating into a certain society, they don't havd good "minority manners".
  • Ah, the ire directed their way makes sense, then. Thanks for filling me in!
  • edited January 15
    @texczech82

    What's up with all the hate for Albanians?
    Frankly, I never figured that out myself. In Balkan, hatred runs deep - hatred towards Albanians (and vice versa) is much deeper than any hatred among various Slavic groups. And it is propagated by the powers outside. It's easy for you and I to sit at home and type about this. It's a quintessential bullshit neoliberal exercise.  But for an Albanian/Macedonian/Serb/ who is minority on his/her street, no amount of love they show to their neighbors can alleviate the contempt they get back.  That's a reality.  Albanians never had strength to complete their national liberation in the 19c/20c  but they keep trying to do that (actively trying to involve outside powers in it) to the annoyance of everybody in the Balkans. 

    @Dušan
    Albanians have national ideology that produces conflicts.
    You mean, as opposed to Serbs?

    They have this idea of Ethnic or "Natural" Albania that would include almost half of Macedonia, third of Montenegro, Serbian province of Kosovo and some smaller parts of central Serbia and smaller parts of Greece.
    In some of the regions you mentioned (Kosovo a prime example) they are majority, and have been so for a very long time. How is what Turks or Austrians did to Serbs up until the mid-to-late 19c any different to what Serbs have done to Albanians on Kosovo since 1912? 
    but it seems that they are bad at integrating into a certain society, they don't havd good "minority manners".
    This is a horrible argument. I don't even know where to start with that.

  • Image result for serbia map meme
    Seems appropriate.
  • @balkanizer you didn't quote me completely 
    All nations on Balkans have similar ideas among certain groups
    I don't claim those are good arguments or reasons for animosity. I'm just saying they're used that way, this is from Serbian POV. I'm neutral, as I said I don't have any contact with them. I only want conflicts to stop, everyone to make some compromises and for saying "Jebeš Srbina koji tri rata nije preživeo" to become thing of the past.
  • It's not good it's not bad it's sad. I'm from the east Macedonia but I live now in Switzerland and here are a lot of Albanians that actually come from Macedonia. They are representing Macedonia as an Albanian country and I'm ashamed to say where I'm coming from because everyone will hate me and think that I'm Albanian. I've been asked a lot of a loot lot of times why am I not Muslim and that's the biggest reason I hate thouse people! 
  • edited January 15
    I've been asked a lot of a loot lot of times why am I not Muslim and that's the biggest reason I hate thouse people! 

    That has at least something to do with the ignorance of those asking.

    @Monika, what town are you from? And what is approximately the % of Albanians in your hometown? Are they all Muslims or are there any Catholics?





  • they made the Turks, Gypsies and the Torbeshi (Macedonian muslims) register themselves as Albanians. 
     @tobi34 , how do you know this? And, second question, why would Torbeshi go along with this? 





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