#408897

Anonymous
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We were quite known for stickin fingers in eyes of Empires, Byzantine, HRE, Ottoman, Austrian… Bad argument. Montenegro arrised as reaction to Ottoman imperialism.

Something I can not remember that finger in eye.
Byzantines led the Serbs as a people of a trust that will appease Slavs in the area of Thessaloniki.
With ottoman Serbs lived in close mycorrhiza several centuries.
Already a proverbial big love Habsburg Austria and Serbs.
Montenegro existed before the Turks.

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Here we have circular reasoning. Orthodox priests and bishops in Montenegro according to you were not Serbs, but somehow they were forcing Montenegrins, and themseelves to become Serbs, and to declare themselves as Serbs. Honestly does your word make sense to anyone?

No I did not say that.
First Orthodox priesthood in Montenegro was a little different from what you imagine. They can not distinguish them from ordinary people, except that they sometimes interviews were conducted some activities by churches.
Rulers of Montenegro who were Bishop, had to be guided by the requirements of the major powers. The Great Powers had planned disappearance of Montenegro and its drowning in a future Balkan Christian kingdom.
The plan was a Greater Serbia, which was originally the idea of the Austrian Empire, which embraced the Russian Empire.

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Hm, where Andrija Mandić or any of priests of SPC tell Orthodoxy=/=Serbdom? You should provide quotation. They say Montenegrins were Serbs. It's something you must accept if you study history. Yes, lot of Montenegrins today declare to be something else. Its fine by me. But stop hijacking our heroes, and counterfiting history. Danilo I, St Peter, Njegoš, King Nikola, Balšići, Crnojevići, vojvoda Minja… they were
Serbs. Not Montenegrins, Not Zetans, Diocetans, Martians. If you dont like your past, ignore it.

No they do not speak. It is for them that axiom is not mentioned. And finally, the highlight of the truth. Montenegrins have not ever existed, all of Balšića until today are pure proud Serbs.
You could have the Voislavljevića. But there seems Serbs there are no before Nemanjići and their "unification" Serbian land. Kako su oni bili dalekovidi pa su znali gdje će sve biti srpske zemlje i gdje će sve biti Srbi i već tada napravili srpsku zemlju.

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Not at all. It mentiions Montenegrins, it does not say: "We are not Serbs, we are only and exclusively Serbs". Common, regional name does not exclude ethnic. I am Bosanac, Krajišnik, Vrhovac (all regional identites), but I am Serb, when we speak about ethnicity. Do you think Montenegrin rulers were schizophreniacs? In one document they were Serbs in other, separate ethnicty? Its hollow argument. Sorry.

Valtazar Bogišić scientist and researcher.
He made a survey of the traditions and customs of Montenegrins, Hercegovinians and Albanians the north of Albania today. It was the sphere of interest of Montenegro, or space future Montenegrin state.
On the basis of it is made proprietary code, which is still studied as an example of the best property law, in all the universities of the world.
Fantastic valuable and important document, which does not exist nikodjednog Yugoslav nations.
He does not mention any Serbs, in the section on relations Montenegrins with other nations Serbs set as a foreign nation.
I do not see any cavity, but hard rock incontrovertible witness.

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Really? Njegoš and King Nikola were educated in Serbia? You want to proeve it, good luck ;D

No they did not teach school in Serbia. It is common knowledge, but I do not understand what tio do with the story.

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Why Russian Empire would care what's their ethnicity. Also why would somebody wrote poems on demand of Empire. Again no logic.

Russian Empire wanted to land under their control. For them it would best serve the Serbs. The songs are written by lyricist.

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Jovo Kapičić is mental case. Son of Serb father and father of Serb son, being anti-Serb and Montenegrin. And yes he was anti-Serb. Even Serbs in UDBA were anti-Serbs. They have blood of inocent Serbian children, men and women on their hands.

What are you talking about, man?

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Wait, how nobody of Liberals speaks with Belgrade accent, and Vesna Perović does ;D Both of your statements cant be true? Dont you think so? What about defrocked preist Miraš Dedejić "Metropolitan Mihailo". How that 143% pure Montenegrin, fighter agains opression of Saint Sava, is speaking in Belgrade accent?

Anyway, apropo Ijekavica, 2,000,000 of Serbs speak it, and ~270,000 Montenegrins. ;D

Vesna Perović je radikalna Srpkinja (članica Radikalne stranke Vojislava Šešelja iz Zemuna) koja je po zadatku došla u LSCG, izuzetak koji potvrđuje pravilo. Miraš ne govori beogradskim akcentom.

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Dont play smart. You said something, I said something completly different, and you are trying to make two statements equal. I understand you are comunicating trough Google translate, but at least try tracking what did I said, and what I did not.

??OK

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Good morning, but how it supports your arguments?

Good luck you. So it is clearly politically and ethnically not the same.

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1) Where did I said it does not mentions Montenegrins.
2) And what it says for you if it does? They saw Montenegrins as subgroup of Serbs. Mentioning of Montenegrins means exactly nothing.

incredible

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Excuse me, but I was telling you:
1) You cant disaprove historic source, because you dont like it.
2) You (Montenegirns) do exist. But you did not exist as nation when Njegoš was alive. You are trying to proeve it, by telling "Njegoš was poet, so whe cant use his works as source about his ethnicity": Quite conincing ;D

I am not overturned the value of historical sources, because it does not suit me. I just corresponds to each source.
If Bishop Petar I Petrovic mentioned Montenegrins as a nation, where they disappeared when he came to the new Bishop Petar II Petrovic?

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Montenegrins could claim, but Montenegrins fail to prove it does. All Montenegrins are doing is trying to argue about their ancestors who were claiming to be Serbs, were forced by Russia, or by Serbian Orthodox Church, yet in turn they claim there was no SOC in Montenegro before 1920 :D It makes sense ;D

Montenegrins have never claimed that the Serbs. Do Serbs were Turkish raja.

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You see, you have to prove us, Petrovići did not consider themselves to be Serbs, despite tonns of their statements to be Serbs. You are trying to do it for three months, and somehow you are constantly recicling 4-5 ilogical statements. ;)

And as you'll have to prove to themselves they've not been told that the Serbs.

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Rlly? There is no Montenegrin Serbs today?

No there are no Montenegrin Serbs. There are Serbs and congratulations to them, it's their choice.

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Big deal ;D

Also :)

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No, this is most stupid statement I ever heard. Illiad is epic poem. It describes war, which, if happened at all happened 4-6 centuries before peom is compiled. It cant be military report. Homer was blind, sung centuries latter at so on. Yet, its value as histric source, lies in facts: it preserved Hellenic oral tradition about Troyan war, it gives us picture of society in which Homer lived, it give us hsi views on war, on Hellenic people etc. Also, it has some information about Micenian period, he knows Micanian Greeks used chariots, altough he is ignorant how they were used in battle. You see, no offenese, but you and history are speaking different languages.

I read the Iliad several dozen times and I understood as a military report. I was really mysterious to the blind Homer managed to vividly describe the events of the Trojan War, but the world is full of wonders.

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Everything we write is product of imagination. But, first mainstream of history is that istraga poturica is historic fact. Anyway, Gorski vijenac is historic source about Njegoš and people with whom he lived. That was my point. Telling its product of imagination, when we are talking about his nationla feelings, numerous times expressed there is stupid an irrelevant.

The Istraga poturica was not a historic event. It never occurred except in the imagination of the poet.

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It's entirely fictional? Not my friend. It mentions historic persons who existed. Of course it gives us fictional account, but what then? Gorski vijenac, like any other literary piece, is primarily monument of historic time when it was composed. Children are learning this on first clases of history. 

This is referred to as historical personalities set in a fictional context, the context does not make it true. Nor is that children are learning in schools falsehood will make her the truth.

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Good morning

Good luck you

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Ok, I see you didnnt red Gorski vijenac. ;D He was not participant of poem (not drama).

I wanted to say. He was not a participant in the poem. And what has he to whom the poem is dedicated?

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Wait wait wait… his own people is brotherly people? Njegoš considered himself Serb. You can not deny it. So this is straw man.

I am not found anywhere that Peter II himself said he was a Serb.

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L00lz. You confused, persons, time space, type of unit…

Yes you are right.

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Could you prove this piece of science fiction by anything?
1) St. Peter of Cetinje sent vojvoda Minja to make contact with Karađorđe, this is some 40 years before Mountain wreath was written.
2) There was no ambush.
3) They made contact, but Karađorđe was forced to retreat from Raška, because of Ottoman offensive torugh Morava valley.

Now, when you exactly have clue about things you are writing, we could discuss them. Otherwise, I feel like teacher expalining 7 year old.

Yes you are right.
Who killed as many people?

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Hm, first, to Muslims as religion community, Saint Vasilije is just kaffir who numerous times rebeled against khalifa. Its historic fact. Yes, many Muslims go there, but they do not do it because of their Islamic faith. They are by Islam making shirk.
Now, he cant be equally respected by Orthodox and Catholics, because he was Orthodox bishop, saint of that Church. For Roman Catholics, he could be indeed saint man, but he is schismatic first. He was no in communion with Roman Catholic Church. Anyway, now since you are so worried about stealing Montenegirn History… Saint Vasilije was Serb. He was born in Herccegovina. When he lived in Ostrog, nobody know what is Crna Gora. He was not even Metropolitan of Cetinje. He was Metropolitan of Hercegovina. Now mind your own business. Saint Vasilije was Serb, Serbian monk, priest bishop. Montenegirns (as separate nation) have nothinng, exactly nothing with him. If you dont want to be Serbs leave Serbian saints alone.

PS, didnt you notice, they still go in monastery on foot. About business, l00lz. People are leving donation to monastery as sign of gratitude. You dont like it, case is simple, dont go there and dont leave money. It was allways like that, since you mentioned Muslims. Many rich Muslims were leaving jewlery and golden meny there. It was somewha different back then?

Not to mention that there are no more pilgrims. Or, for example, the cult of Saint Vladimir Doclean, when pilgrims Orthodox, Catholic and Muslim faith together on Rumi amounted Cross St Vladimir. And there's SPC managed to destroy the cult 600 years old, and made his masquerade. Serbian national elite has cut her sacred tree cer front of Cetinje Monastery.

The cult of Saint Basil of destroyed Serbian Orthodox Church and the looks are initiated criminal charges against her, and His Grace Mr. mitropilita SPC from Montenegro Amfilohija, the devastation of the law protected object. I no longer go under the Ostrog.
What's Metropolitan Herzegovina worked in a cave ostroških cliff?