• This topic has 12 voices and 30 replies.
Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)
  • Author
  • #347621


    Bulgars on here have attempted to denigrate Macedonians by asking whether they are Serb or Bulgarian. It’s an illegitimate question. The real question should be are Bulgars Tatars or a mix of Tatars and Slavs?



    Since there are no many haplogroups in Bulgarians which could be described as “Tatar”, no, they are not Tatars. Mostly they’re Thrachian and partly Slavoid, becouse of their R1a-M458. 

    By the way, can someone post Bulgarian DNA project there?



    Tatar is a generic term for many different groups of peoples.

    Kazan Tatars, Mishar Tatars, Kasim Tatars, Siberian Tatars, Astrakhan Tatars, Teptiar Tatars, Kryashens (Christian Tatars), Lipka Tatars (Poland, Lithuania, Belarus), Perm Tatars, Nagaibak Tatars (of Nogai descent?), Chepets Tatars, Crimean Tatars.

    Take a pick.




    Turkic Bulgars didn’t appear in Balkan as horde, mostly probably just ruling class was Turkic, such as Asparuh.
    Others are descedants mostly of Thracians and “Seven Slavic tribes” which was described there.



    There were no Thracians on the Balkans in the 6th century.



    mostly probably just ruling class was Turkic, such as Asparuh.
    Which would be quite ironic, considering the name is prime example Iranic.



    @”South Slav”

    >Turkic Bulgars didn’t appear in Balkan as horde, mostly probably just ruling class was Turkic, such as Asparuh.
    Others are descedants mostly of Thracians and “Seven Slavic tribes” which was described there.

    Oghur speaking Bulgars split into three groups.  One group went to Danube, the other group went to middle Volga.  Some Bulgars stayed in northern Caucases and Caspian steppes . Modern day Balkars living in northern Caucases derive their ethnonym from Bulgars.  Danube Bulgars switched to Slavic language, while Finno-Ugric people of middle Volga – ancestors of Kazan Tatars and Chuvashes – switched to Oghur. Both Kazan Tatars and Chuvashes genetically relate to neighbouring Volgaic Finnic speaking Mari. Chuvashes also culturally relate to Mari in some ways.

    During Golden Horde rule ancestors of Kazan Tatars and Balkars switched to Kypchak that was lingua franca in Horde at the time. The language that was spoken by nomadic Turkic living in western Kazakhstan. To this day Chuvashes speak Oghur – the language Bulgars spoke. There are numerous flame discussions between Chuvashes and Kazan Tatars fighting over Volga Bulgar heritage, which is funny to read. Today, Kazan Tatars speak Kypchak which can be understood by Kazakhs to some extent. Also many Kazan Tatars are russified unable to speak their native language, especially those living in cities and outside of Tatarstan.



    I’m drinking alcohol again, so I’ma be too smart again. This kind of threads don’t do any good. We Slavs should stick together instead of hating and making fun about one another. Bulgarian bulgarians are Slavic today and that’s important. We should do better and at least try to be one big family, but people like you prevent it. :/



    :D Slovax wuz magyars n sheeeiiit. Also into my cups.




    Czechs are germans, croats are avars, serbs are turks, bulgarians are tatars slovaks are magyars, russians are vikings. Feel free to add ti this lista



    Nobody can say for certain what the language of the Bulgars was (let alone Oghur, Oghuz etc), considering there’s next to nothing left from it, aside from a few military and calendar terms, which themselves are heavily contested between the Turkic and Iranic theories. Then again, modern Bulgaria has generals, tanks, grenades etc. and all of those words are of Western origin. I guess we’re Anglo-Germans now…




    Why do Chuvashes living next to Mari in middle Volga speak Oghur? aWe know for a fact from numerous sources about the existence of Volga Bulgaria in this region – confluence of Volga and Kama river near present day Mari El and Tatarstan Republic between 7th-13th centuries before Mongol invasion. Map of Chuvash republic. Yoshkar Ola is capital of Finno-Ugric speaking Mari, who genetically and culturally related to Chuvashes except the language.


    There was no Turkic living  in the regtion prior to the arrival of Bulgars.



    Probably because the Chuvashes are the descendants of the Sabirs (Suvars in the Late Middle Ages)? And the Sabirs are considered to be a Hunnic tribe, which was first part of Old Great Bulgaria (Eastern Ukraine/Southern Russia) and then moved north to the Volga-Kama area with Kotrag’s Bulgars (and in the first few centuries of Volga Bulgaria, the Sabirs, Barsils, Esegels etc lived separately in their own autonomous states, until they were eventually swallowed by the expanding Volga Bulgaria, making it even a more colourful mix than the Balkan one). And the Turkic presence in the region appears primarily around the 13th c., due to the Kypchaks (Polovtsi, in Russian) and the pressure from the Mongols.

    Btw, funny, one of the books I’m currently reading is exactly a history of Volga Bulgaria.



    This thread has touched an interesting topic… 

    Has there been any study on any related words between Modern Bulgarian and Oghur?  Or Bulgarian and other East Iranic or Turkic languages?

    I’ve always thought for example, quite a common word in both Macedonian and Bulgarian, such as “sakash” and “iskash” as not necessarily slavic, and they sound foreign, maybe even from the East like Turkic or Iranic, or are they from some older local dialect from a Thraco-Ilyrian language?  Its not remotely similar to Albanian, which claim to be descendants of the Ilyrians.

    I’ll give you an example in context:

    English: “What do you want?”

    Macedonian: “Sto sakash?”
    Bulgarian: “Sto iskash?”

    Serb-Croat: “Sta hochesh?
    Russian: “Sto ti khotite?”
    Ukrainian: “Sto ti khochesh?”

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 32 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.


9 User(s) Online Join Server
  • LukaVader
  • SinisterWidow
  • m1tric
  • KratΩs
  • Симеон
  • LCaine