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  • #346306

    Anonymous

    In 1017 AD Basil II the "Bulgar-slayer" campaigned against the Bulgarian stronghold of Setina.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Setina

    At that time Bulgarian Tsar was Ivan Vladislav, the nephew of Tsar Samuel, who came to power after killing his own cousin Gabriel-Radomir (Samuel's son).

    The Byzantine historians who describe the battle (Skylitzes and Kedrenos) write that at some point Basil charged against the Bulgarian camp and when the camp sentries saw him they went back to the camp panicked and shouted «βεζεῖτε, βεζεῖτε, Τζάσαρ!» ("bezite, bezite, Casar!",in Kedrenos' version of the story) and «βεζεῖτε, ὁ Τζέσαρ!» ("bezite, o Cesar!in Skylitzes' version of the story).

    Now, Tom Winnifrith (a researcher on the Vlachs) claims that during the usual Balkan competitions in Macedonia, this phrase has been variously described as "Slavic","Vlach" or "corrupted Greek". To make things more difficult the greek letter beta «β» when it is used by byzantines to describe foreign sounds it can be both /b/ and /v/ (the actual posthellenistic Greek sound of the letter). For example, in byzantine Greek "Sclavene" and "Bulgarian" are written Σκλαβηνός , Βούλγαρος, both with «β».

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    I think that Ivan Biliarsky gives the best "decypherment" of the phrase as pure Bulgarian/Slavic for "Run, run ! the [Byzantine] Tsar [is coming] !" (běžite, běžite, Čěsarĭ !)

    With běžite being the 2nd plural present imperative of the verb běgati "run,flee":

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Slavic/b%C4%9Bgati#Proto-Slavic

    and Čěsarĭ the OCS ancestor of modern "tsar":

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%86%D1%A3%D1%81%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%8C

    Now the problem is this. Wiktionary gives me the forms begajte/bjagajte for the 2nd plural present imperative of the east southslavic (Macedonian, Bulgarian) verb begati/bjagati.

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    Only in Serbian I have found the imperative bežite.

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    What are your thoughts?

    Is the form bežite found today in Macedonian and ekavian Bulgarian?

    #427304

    Anonymous

    Slovenian also has the verb "bežati", which gives the form bežíte in this case.

    #427305

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Slovenian also has the verb "bežati", which gives the form bežíte in this case.

    Good to know.

    #427306

    Anonymous

    There's in Belarusian.

    English: Run!
    Belarusian : Bjažitsie!

    There's a reduction of 'e' to 'ja' and phonetic affricate of soft 't' > 'ts'

    In Russian

    Run! Run! — Begite! Begite!
    But if one wants to asks where are you running? Then it'd be 'kuda vy bezhite'?

    #427307

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There's in Belarusian.

    English: Run!
    Belarusian : Bjažitsie!

    There's a reduction of 'e' to 'ja' and phonetic affricate of soft 't' > 'ts'

    In Russian

    Run! Run! — Begite! Begite!
    But if one wants to asks where are you running? Then it'd be 'kuda vy bezhte'?

    Ok, so the imperative "run!" (Bjažitsie) fits us well.

    I guess we may suppose that there was a double form (běgite/běžite!) already from the proto-slavic days.

    #427308

    Anonymous

    Srb variant is bežite! (imperative, pl) , infinitive is bežati, but archaic form which can be still heard is inf. begati imperative pl. begajte!
    There are phonetic changes in neostokavian dialects, which can describe why srb/cro has that G-> Ž palatalization, that is why ekavian Bulgarian still use "BEGAJ".
    Phontec change took place after PS, in early OCS, if you remember, that is why PIE Gw in Greek gave "G" and in OCS "Ž"  : (dor) γυνα = žena
    Same case like in:
    PIE *wĺ̥kʷe 'wolf!' (vocative singular of *wĺ̥kʷos) > PSl. *wilke > OCS vlьče, Pol. wilcze, SCr. vȗče
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_first_palatalization

    Even though it is commonly stated in the literature that the result of first palatalization were consonants */č/, */ž/, */š/, there is no certain evidence that that process was indeed finished by the 600 CE…
    That can be seen from the fact that Slavic words were borrowed into Middle Greek in palatalized form, and also from the fact that Romance toponyms on the Adriatic undergo the second, not the first palatalization….

    #427309

    Anonymous

    With běžite being the 2nd plural present imperative of the verb běgati "run,flee":

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Slavic/b%C4%9Bgati#Proto-Slavic

    Okay, I won't mess with Proto-Slavic/OCS. I'll instead use Interslavic wordforms which in turn can be similar to both OCS/PSL.

    The form "bežite" doesn't come from the verb "begati" (imp.). The verb "begati" yields these forms – (ja) begaju/begam, (ty) begaješ/begaš, (ty) begaj!, (vy) begajte!

    But there is another verb – begti which is perfective. Its forms are (ja) begu, (ty) bežiš, (ty) beži! (in some languages also begi!) and (vy) bežite! (or begite)

    #427310

    Anonymous

    Run! in Slovak – Bežte!

    #427311

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Run! in Slovak – Bežte!

    From what I see, you all use the variant "Bežite" except the modern descendants of the sentries who shouted the words in 1017 AD … hehehehe !!!!

    #427312

    Anonymous

    The imperative beži! (as other like govori!, vari!, slyši!, etc) is used in Southern and Eastern languages. In Western, there's bež! govoŕ! vaŕ! slyš! etc

    #427313

    Anonymous

    Here we have also the dialectual form bejžte with the imperative bejž, which seems to be closer to Slovakian.

    #427314

    Anonymous

    "бегайте" and "бежте" are both used in modern Bulgarian. imperative is "беж(те)!".
    "бежите" might have been an archaic form.

    #427315

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    "бегайте" and "бежте" are both used in modern Bulgarian. imperative is "беж(те)!".
    "бежите" might have been an archaic form.

    Amen !!! Where have you been aaaa ?

    So there is Bulgarian "бежте" … that's what I was wondering.

    #427316

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Amen !!! Where have you been aaaa ?

    So there is Bulgarian "бежте" … that's what I was wondering.

    Well, I'm not a linguist, and I was hoping someone else could clarify things. I think "беж" is the original imperative form, although бегай/бягай is more common.

    #427317

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, I'm not a linguist, and I was hoping someone else could clarify things. I think "беж" is the original imperative form, although бегай/бягай is more common.

    Anyway, I have a better one for you. Do you know when Bulgarian developed the postposed article (vino-to, glava-ta)?

    Because the early OCS texts from Bulgaria don't show this feature which is considered a "Balkan Sprachbund" feature, something that the Slavs who evolved into Bulgarians picked from the pre-Slavic Vlachs, who preserved this Daco-Thracian feature even after their latinization, just as the Albanians continue to have this feature.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balkan_sprachbund#Postposed_article

    That this is a Daco-Thracian is evident from the fact that neither Serbo-Croatian nor Dalmatian Romance has a postposed definitive article.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalmatian_language#Language_sample

    Dalmatian: sait santificuot el naun to.
    Romanian: sfințească-se numele tău.

    Now, "Ivatses" (Ivanče ?) was the last Bulgarian župan to surrender to Basil II. His castle was in west Kutmichevitsa (modern South Albania) on the mountain Tomor and Skylitzes calls it «Βροχωτός» ("Vrohotòs"):

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kutmichevitsa
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivats

    I am wondering if this is a greek corruption of Bulgarian "Vrĭhotŭ" = "The Peak" (mod. bulg Vŭrhŭt/Vrŭhŭt, mac. Vrvot/Vrhot) as in the toponym Kumanite = "The Kumans"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumanite

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