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  • #349376

    Anonymous

    Come on, this discussion leads to nowhere. No matter if they are christian or pre-christian, Slavic wooden churches are the most beautiful spiritual buildings to exist on this planet, in the whole world the only thing which even comes close are Japanese temples (of whom Pentaz posted one example). They are part of our heritage and we have every reason to be proud of them and preserve them, regardless if the people who built them were christians, native believers or syncretists.

    #349377

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Most of your two upper posts only provide this arrogant assimilation logic of if you take someones temple and accommodate it to your needs it means it is yours and against such logic i can't really do or prove a thing.

    Pentaz, you do not read. :)
    Christians accomodated courthouses and musemus as Churches (basiclicas and Alexandrian Museum), not temples. Later they developed their own architectural styles. Basis for those styles was Greco-Roman basiclica. They did not use styles of temples. Sometimes they used pilars and pilars from ruined pagan temples. Sometimes they built Churches on places previously ruined temples. There is one example of Temple converted in Church (I wont tell you wich, research a bit).

    And when I was saing that Churches were built in shape of cross I was reffering to this:

    image

    #349378

    Anonymous

    pentaz the individual church in lipnik couldnt be pagan because it was built in 15th century…. similarly with other churches, especailly roman catholic which contain statues :)
    ok so lets say for people who made that tourist guide or what it is it evokes pagan idol… for you, its absolutely ok proof? hmm
    what do some real scientists say? does it come from pagan times?
    or from 15th, 16th century when people hardly used pagan idols

    also note that religion isnt about rituals but faith. rituals are outer, surface things… rituals dont make religion

    so kudesnik, christians should stop eating bread because it was eaten by pagans? there is usually some continuity over time in human society
    future evolves from past, and we are bound to past

    povhec wrote it nicely… its ever-evolving continuity. and yes you forgot its the same people (their descendants). you dont steal your language, cuisine etc from parents

    #349379

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    pentaz the individual church in lipnik couldnt be pagan because it was built in 15th century…. similarly with other churches, especailly roman catholic which contain statues :)
    ok so lets say for people who made that tourist guide or what it is it evokes pagan idol… for you, its absolutely ok proof? hmm
    what do some real scientists say? does it come from pagan times?
    or from 15th, 16th century when people hardly used pagan idols

    " History suggests that the current church replaced an 11th century pagan temple – the only remnant of which is a an ancient oak totem in the image of a pre-christian god. Still a functioning church and cemetery, the worshippers are reminded of the Decalogue (10 commandments) every time they enter as the interior is decorated with folk paintings typical of the period."


    what do you get? Christian architecture all the sudden?

    #349380

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Dalibor, add a Christian Dome on this:
    image
    what do you get? Christian architecture all the sudden?

    And that was built in shape of Cross, it has Christian altar it was decorated by Christian symbols? It was built by Christians for their worship?

    #349381

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    And that was built in shape of Cross, it has Christian altar it was decorated by Christian symbols? It was built by Christians for their worship?

    image
    #349382

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    so kudesnik, christians should stop eating bread because it was eaten by pagans?

    Stop eating bread?! 

    there is usually some continuity over time in human society
    future evolves from past, and we are bound to past
    povhec wrote it nicely… its ever-evolving continuity. and yes you forgot its the same people (their descendants). you dont steal your language, cuisine etc from parents

    The architecture evolved as most things do over time. There is no doubt about this. But it evolved out of pagan architecture and we still see many old pagan elements in this new architectural style.

    #349383

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    as if this one is? :)
    image

    Draw plan of it. (Tlocrt). Then we will see. Well, it could be at best for your argument omission of one characteristic and presenc eof all others.
    It was built in Gothic style. It has cross as oundation.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_style

    #349384

    Anonymous

    okey so the idol is most probably pagan
    there was even pagan temple. which is like discovering america because its well known that old churches were built on previous places of worship, which is normal and understandable. for example its like when bulgarian petrol station changed their toilets from turkish stand-to-shit to modern wc toilet after they entered eu. can you imagine people not going to the same toilet place just because they entered eu?  ;D
    but the point is, that they probably didnt have pagan temple building as most slavs, only temple as place of worship (wooden idols, fire, some stones around to make it clear it isnt for playing etc). not building.
    and btw where they had temple buildings (elbe river, baltic sea) those were usually destroyed before building a church there

    #349385

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    You dont remember correctlly, in oldest Church in Dure Epirus there were wall paintings. Iconoclasm was from in VIII and IX centuries

    Nitpicking much? Iconoclasm was formally allowed only 730 (that's some good 300 years after Byzantine foundation). Why? It was an European pagan thing, and such things were seen as heresy. In the middle ages bathing was seen as heresy too by the Christians, since it was too a pagan thing. That was my point. Don't twist it with meaningless details.

    Quote:
    Christian Church has origin is Ancient Jewish people as comunity gatherd by God to be His people. Architectural style of Christian Churches (buildings) was developed from Roman courthouse, not Tribunal (court)

    Agree with the jewish part, however – The Latin word basilica (derived from Greek, Basiliké Stoà, Royal Stoa), was originally used to describe a Roman public building (as in Greece, mainly a tribunal), usually located in the forum of a Roman town.

    Quote:
    That is not correct picture, but I am not here to give leactures from history of architecture.

    Well that is too bad. I for one enjoy your sermons.
    Byzantine architecture was inspired by the Roman empire, with some eastern Greek flavuor. It's still pagan European at it's core.

    Btw here is a Norwegian stave church. The resemblance to Germanic pagan huts is staggering –
    image

    #349386

    Anonymous

    carniolan seriously whats so hard about understanding that people usually continue in evolving their architecture? regardless of religion or whatever. the only thing which changes architecture is technological advance and influence of other cultures over time

    #349387

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    image

    However Pentaz you must admit this isn't a religious building but a longhouse. I was in one of these in Denmark. Interior itself looks rather like some kind of house with a barn.

    I must point out another thing i forgot to say. There isn't Christian or Pagan architecture but ancient Greek & ancient Slavic architecture in case of time when there was paganism both Greeks and Slavs were pagans but their architecture is a lot different. In case of medieval period for example there was Latin (Western) & Byzantine architecture. Additionally architecture of Primorska churches is fundamentally different from Gorenjska chruches and we are talking about the same country. Also if church is wooden it is logically christian architecture since it was build as a christian church but of course influence from pre-Christian period is very possible but then again we must know it has gone trough evolution like i said before + we cant designate church as being under pagan influence just because it is wooden.

    For example church from Velika Planina has origin in 1938 before that there wasn't any church at all.

    image

    #349388

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Christianity does not exist…

    Do I exist?

    #349389

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    okey so the idol is most probably pagan
    there was even pagan temple. which is like discovering america because its well known that old churches were built on previous places of worship, which is normal and understandable. for example its like when bulgarian petrol station changed their toilets from turkish stand-to-s*** to modern wc toilet after they entered eu. can you imagine people not going to the same toilet place just because they entered eu?  ;D
    but the point is, that they probably didnt have pagan temple building as most slavs, only temple as place of worship (wooden idols, fire, some stones around to make it clear it isnt for playing etc). not building.
    and btw where they had temple buildings (elbe river, baltic sea) those were usually destroyed before building a church there

    You can use toilet analogy whatever tickles your fancy.
    And it is not only the idol that is from paganism. The very idea of using sacral building making it look magnificent came from the pagans.

    I mentioned already that Christianity is a collection of religious texts and Church is a gathering of people. The gathering of people doesn’t have to occur in most magnificent building. Everything  not accounted for in the Bible is 'worldliness' and probably shouldn’t be part of Christian religion in first place.
    Yes, all modern architecture evolved out of architecture from Baroque, Renaissance, Medieval and antiquity periods. It is reasonable to assume  that all modern Church architecture evolved out of earlier sacral architecture used by pagans be it early Slavic, Germanic, Roman or Byzantium architecture.

    #349390

    Anonymous

    idea of sacral places, not just buildings is universal probably to all people… and its thought slavs build temple buildings under christian influence, i think i mentioned it in this thread.
    christianity is religion, not collection of texts.
    did you know that attending temples is mentioned in bible? including new testament which is basis of christianity
    however buildings, architecture etc dont constitute faith. faith is spiritual

    i hope you at least know what is spirituality, because your materialist view and shallow judging based on surface and first glance of things says otherwise.

    and yes if you want to judge architecture, one fancy photo of how building looks from outside isnt enough. architecture styles are reflected in small almost unnoticeable details. because all buildings on earth share the same basic look. walls+roof

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