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  • #343488
    Boris V.
    Boris V.
    Participant
    @dedushka

    How would you improve birth rates in Slavic countries? What would you name as Economic solutions to improve it and make it affordable?

    #386036

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    How would you improve birth rates in Slavic countries? What would you name as Economic solutions to improve it and make it affordable?

    I don’t believe lower birthrate is the result of poor economy. We can find a list of countries with sound economies and social securities and the birthrates in those countries wouldn’t be much higher than in Slav countries.  I am thinking of Scandinavian countries.

    High birth rates are occurring in muslim countries, religious states of USA known as "Bible belt" and impoverished countries in which women with little or no education sit at home looking after their families. In my opinion, lower birth rates in western world is the result of emancipation of women. One may argue poor economic conditions worsen social securitiy which in turn may influence the birthrate. I don't believe it is going make a lot of difference and a good example is Sweden or Norway.

    #386037

    Anonymous

    Illegalize abortions and do some patriotic poking of all the condoms in your nation :)

    #386038

    Anonymous

    Yes, the lower birth rate issue is slowly knocking on our Slavic doors, too.

    Low birth rate is intrinsic to western decadent societies. Today's folks are noting more than materialistic pigs whose only concern is to hoard as much wealth as possible, and they think children are nothing more than a hindrance to their career. Women today would prefer to have a succesful job rather than stay home and raise children. Of course the same applies to men.

    IMHO there's little to be done economically speaking (just take a look at the "nordic model"). Slavic countries are slowly accepting Western values, and ethnic preservation of your people is definitely NOT amogst them

    #386039

    Anonymous

    Low birth rates have history in Slavic lands for quite some time. This has nothing to do with western values, etc. that's just bollocks. ;D Irish are western and they have pretty decent birth rates hell French aint that bad either. I have been there and yeah i saw many young Irish women with kids + pregnant.

    Slovenia already had bad situation during communist Yugoslavia thats why we had to import other Yugoslavians. Nowdays i see lots of kids among Slovenes to be honest. Or at least in my area anyway. Basicaly east and south Slovenes are statistically destroying our birth rates. If it werent for them Slovenia would have pretty decent birth rates.

    #386040

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Illegalize abortions and do some patriotic poking of all the condoms in your nation :)

    I agree with this. (With serious part it is ;D ). Anyway we must not forget this:

    Quote:
    Essential thing is to give law protection to young mothers from blacmailing employers. Each pregnat woman should get paid maternity leaves, also mother with more children should get social benefits and such.

    #386041

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Low birth rates have history in Slavic lands for quite some time. This has nothing to do with western values, etc. that's just bollocks. ;D Irish are western and they have pretty decent birth rates hell French aint that bad either. I have been there and yeah i saw many young Irish women with kids + pregnant.

    Slovenia already had bad situation during communist Yugoslavia thats why we had to import other Yugoslavians. Nowdays i see lots of kids among Slovenes to be honest. Or at least in my area anyway. Basicaly east and south Slovenes are statistically destroying our birth rates. If it werent for them Slovenia would have pretty decent birth rates.

    You can call them whatever you want for all I care. But you can't deny that femminism mentioned by Kudesnik isn't having a negative effect on birth rate. Yes it was present in Slavic lands before but I think communism played a great role in this – F. ex. importing non – Slovenes in Slovenia (not that I have anything against other Yugoslavians but I think they cannot replace ethnic Slovenians). But I bet it wasn't that bad 70 – 80 years ago when we didn't live in such a materialistic and consumistic society ( be it capitalism or communism). Having a lot of children was quite normal back then.

    As for France, wtf?? You think ethnic French are the ones having children?? Seriously? Not the African and Asian and Albanian immigrants? If westeners have better birth rates than us it's only because they import those kind of people who use women as birth machines.

    But I didn't know about the Irish… good for them I guess

    #386042

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    You can call them whatever you want for all I care. But you can't deny that femminism mentioned by Kudesnik isn't having a negative effect on birth rate. Yes it was present in Slavic lands before but I think communism played a great role in this – F. ex. importing non – Slovenes in Slovenia (not that I have anything against other Yugoslavians but I think they cannot replace ethnic Slovenians). But I bet it wasn't that bad 70 – 80 years ago when we didn't live in such a materialistic and consumistic society ( be it capitalism or communism). Having a lot of children was quite normal back then.

    As for France, wtf?? You think ethnic French are the ones having children?? Seriously? Not the African and Asian and Albanian immigrants? If westeners have better birth rates than us it's only because they import those kind of people who use women as birth machines.

    But I didn't know about the Irish… good for them I guess

    I dont know man. There were feminists and lots of gay people during time when my mother was young. At least she told me that. However i think most problematic is central Europe more precisely Germany and Slovenes share their ways altho this is slowly ending thankfully.

    For example many folks down here want to build and own very huge house people have couple of cars and all want to have super kids who would go to school, sports club, music club, dance club + everybody wants to go on holidays 4 times a year and then stuff pilles up and you discover all this takes lots of time and money so folks chose few kids when they have house, cars, etc. and then they find out they are like 30 and have 1-2 kids.

    Now this way of thinking is slowly ending so things have improved here. Irish on other hand dont have such silly way of thinking they just go to the local pub, they have normal sized houses (unlike Slovene castles ;D) and they dont spend lots of money on other such things. ;D

    #386043

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I dont know man. There were feminists and lots of gay people during time when my mother was young. At least she told me that. However i think most problematic is central Europe more precisely Germany and Slovenes share their ways altho this is slowly ending thankfully.

    For example many folks down here want to build and own very huge house people have couple of cars and all want to have super kids who would go to school, sports club, music club, dance club + everybody wants to go on holidays 4 times a year and then stuff pilles up and you discover all this takes lots of time and money so folks chose few kids when they have house, cars, etc. and then they find out they are like 30 and have 1-2 kids.

    Now this way of thinking is slowly ending so things have improved here. Irish on other hand dont have such silly way of thinking they just go to the local pub, they have normal sized houses (unlike Slovene castles ;D) and they dont spend lots of money on other such things. ;D

    Huh I didn't know the castles were a Slovenian thing too. Here where I live there are a lot of Serbs, Montenegrins and Bosniaks (some Croats too) and they literally have competitions of who builds bigger house (Overcompensating for something? LOL  ;D). The bigger your house, the higher your social status!

    However, that's a very negative mentality, but I also think there is little to do economically speaking. F. ex. Greek parliament gave money incentive to parents for every third children and still they had negative natality. The same thing in Scandinavia. This policy is only backfiring because it gives incentives to third world immigrants to make even more kids.

    But how come things are starting to change in Slovenia? Is it because of government intervention?
    Btw good to hear it…

    #386044

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Huh I didn't know the castles were a Slovenian thing too. Here where I live there are a lot of Serbs, Montenegrins and Bosniaks (some Croats too) and they literally have competitions of who builds bigger house (Overcompensating for something? LOL  ;D). The bigger your house, the higher your social status!

    However, that's a very negative mentality, but I also think there is little to do economically speaking. F. ex. Greek parliament gave money incentive to parents for every third children and still they had negative natality. The same thing in Scandinavia. This policy is only backfiring because it gives incentives to third world immigrants to make even more kids.

    But how come things are starting to change in Slovenia? Is it because of government intervention?
    Btw good to hear it…

    I dont know why but for example to me big house dosent mean a thing. Infact i would prefer smaller one. My grandmother had 8 brothers and sisters (i think not 100% sure) and their house was realy small in modern standards. I guess some folks just realised it is supid to have biggest house in the hood, newest expensive car, etc. and yeah situation is same here. Altho there are still many people obsesed with big houses, etc.

    #386045

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    But I bet it wasn't that bad 70 – 80 years ago when we didn't live in such a materialistic and consumistic society ( be it capitalism or communism). Having a lot of children was quite normal back then.

    Child labour was also quite normal back then, you didn't make children for them watching pokemon and playing computer games, or chatting over Facebook the whole day, you had children to have someone help you at work. I am talking about the common folk.

    Having children today is connected with their support, if I can't provide the same care to every one of my children, I'll rather have a smaller than a bigger number of them. We ain't Gypsies to produce just for the hell of it, and even they do it because they send their children to work.

    I personally wouldn't give the right to a citizen, to have children, if not able to provide substantial care. Children are not a caprice, if not able to support and provide enough care that your child becomes a qualitative and supportive member of society, you are not allowed to have any. In other words, no sufficient education, no job, no children.

    #386046

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Child labour was also quite normal back then, you didn't make children for them watching pokemon and playing computer games, or chatting over Facebook the whole day, you had children to have someone help you at work. I am talking about the common folk.

    Ah c'mon don't make a mountain out of a molehill! Yeah of course they had to help with work, but I wouldn't call that child labour. You know, more like innocent household chores  ;D Well whatever the case I respect those kind of children more than today's facebook addicts who are more dead weight to a family (and also to society) than anything else.

    Quote:
    Having children today is connected with their support, if I can't provide the same care to every one of my children, I'll rather have a smaller than a bigger number of them. We ain't Gypsies to produce just for the hell of it, and even they do it because they send their children to work.

    I personally wouldn't give the right to a citizen, to have children, if not able to provide substantial care. Children are not a caprice, if not able to support and provide enough care that your child becomes a qualitative and supportive member of society, you are not allowed to have any. In other words, no sufficient education, no job, no children.

    Well I certainly didn't say gypsies should be our rolemodels. Keep in mind however we are discussing here the problem of low birth rate in Slavic countries. I agree having children today is connected with their support, but the problem is people today prefer having extra luxuries (what pohvec posted above, nice cars, big houses, exotic trips etc.) than having for example a third or a second child. This behaviour is against Slavic preservationism, which this forum advocates.

    Also, society in the begginning of last century produced more qualitative children than today's society does. As I said, people had more children, but as there were famine and diseases this ensured that only the strongest and the smartest children could survive. This may sound harsh, but it is according to nature's law. Today we have advanced medical facilities which keep alive children otherwise doomed to death, but to what end? It doesn't improve their quality of life and they don't make any contributions to society.

    I don't advocate such atavisms, I'm just pointing some facts out.  :)

    #386047

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Ah c'mon don't make a mountain out of a molehill! Yeah of course they had to help with work, but I wouldn't call that child labour. You know, more like innocent household chores  ;D Well whatever the case I respect those kind of children more than today's facebook addicts who are more dead weight to a family (and also to society) than anything else.

    Well I certainly didn't say gypsies should be our rolemodels. Keep in mind however we are discussing here the problem of low birth rate in Slavic countries. I agree having children today is connected with their support, but the problem is people today prefer having extra luxuries (what pohvec posted above, nice cars, big houses, exotic trips etc.) than having for example a third or a second child. This behaviour is against Slavic preservationism, which this forum advocates.

    Also, society in the begginning of last century produced more qualitative children than today's society does. As I said, people had more children, but as there were famine and diseases this ensured that only the strongest and the smartest children could survive. This may sound harsh, but it is according to nature's law. Today we have advanced medical facilities which keep alive children otherwise doomed to death, but to what end? It doesn't improve their quality of life and they don't make any contributions to society.

    I don't advocate such atavisms, I'm just pointing some facts out.  :)

    I agree and yes, the last excurs about eugenics you mentioned, is an important ethical question of today. There is a discussion which may interest you.

    #386048

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I dont know why but for example to me big house dosent mean a thing. Infact i would prefer smaller one. My grandmother had 8 brothers and sisters (i think not 100% sure) and their house was realy small in modern standards. I guess some folks just realised it is supid to have biggest house in the hood, newest expensive car, etc. and yeah situation is same here. Altho there are still many people obsesed with big houses, etc.

    On my mothers side they had 4 children as well, but they were a rural folk. I believe it's the modern city lifestyle that plagues the birth rates. People living in a small apartment, of course they'll have only one child while in rural areas where everyone has a house they'll have more children. Until either the prices of apartments don't change and get cheaper, or 50% of city populations go to live in rural areas there's no hope for positive birth rate trends imo.

    #386049

    Anonymous

    In the end, no matter what condition you are in … if you really want children, you are going to make them.

    We link certain emotional (or other) needs not being met to not having certain things outside ourselves (like material wealth, ideal circumstances) Secondly, as having more education and literacy, we are also more aware, conscious, and self-aware of conditions, and the conditions our children will face, and meeting all of their needs as well. (at the same time trying to meet our own. This is not a bad thing, but a reality to point out.)

    However, I don't think economic solution/stimulation is the only thing, not for new generations even… I think we really need to work on the core issues of meeting people's needs in that relate to mental/emotional/social health, because once that is met and people have the desire again, and strongly desire to have children, people will get creative and fight the government for more things that will stimulate the government and economy or for whatever the people demand/need. People will figure it out. I think we need to build stronger more well-lead communities, starting from individual families outward. I know liberalism or feminism are easy scapegoats, but in reality those movements are symptoms of a loss of community and communal needs, not a cause.  I do respect aspects of what those movements provided for us. Quite frankly, I feel disgusted at the idea of anyone proposing to take away my rights, education and freedom as a woman. I can't believe people are posting that here. It's 2012, why are basic human rights being linked to a political ideal? That really has nothing to do with preservation.

    If emancipation is the problem, then what of the immigrant women who are emancipated in Europe? Their emancipation did not stop them from having children. These beliefs and statements are contradicting reality, nor answering the questions as to why white men are not having as many children…

    To perun: I propose socialized childcare (which essentially what an older tribal community would have provided. Women (and men too in other areas) lack a lot of support these days- we have a lot of social/emotional needs that many men and society are unable (or unwilling) to provide. It's NOT a BAD thing that women and people are becoming more consciously aware of these needs as well as wanting to grow in all areas of life, it is a matter of providing them. We always had them as human beings, and our ancestors would have never denied them either.

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