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  • #342387

    Anonymous

    I don't know much about that thema, so if someone has documentary I'd be happy to read it. Or learn from you.

    From Wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosnian_Church

    The Bosnian Church (Bosnian, Croatian, and Serbian: Crkva bosanska Latin: Ecclesia bosniensis) is historically thought to be an indigenous branch of the Bogomils that existed in Bosnia during the Middle Ages. Adherents of the church called themselves simply Krstjani ("Christians"). The church no longer exists and is thought to have disappeared completely after the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia and Herzegovina.The church's organization and beliefs are poorly understood, because few if any records were left by church members, and the church is mostly known from the writings of outside sources, primarily Roman Catholic ones.

    History

    Bosnia was on the boundary between the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches. The Croats to the West and Hungarians to the North embraced Roman Catholicism, while the Serbian lands to the east embraced Eastern Orthodoxy.

    During the later Middle Ages most of Bosnia was partly Roman Catholic as well, but no accurate figures exist as to the numbers of adherents of the two churches. The Bosnian Church coexisted uneasily with Roman Catholicism for much of the later Middle Ages. Part of the resistance of the Bosnian Church was political; during the 14th century, the Roman Church placed Bosnia under a Hungarian bishop, and the schism may have been motivated by a desire for independence from Hungarian domination. Several Bosnian rulers were Krstjani, but some of them embraced Roman Catholicism for political reasons.

    Outsiders accused the Bosnian Church of links to the Patarene heresy, and to the Bogomils, a dualist sect centered in Bulgaria. The Inquisition reported about a dualist sect in Bosnia in the late 15th century and called them "Bosnian heretics", but this sect was according to some historians most likely not the same as the Bosnian Church. The historian Franjo Rački wrote about this in 1869 based on Latin sources but the Croatian scholar Dragutin Kniewald in 1949 established the credibility of the Latin documents in which the Bosnian Church is described as heretical.It is thought today that the Bosnian dualists, who were persecuted by both the Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches, were entirely converted to Islam. The Bosnian Church was dualist in character, and so neither a schimatic Catholic nor Orthodox Church.According to Mauro Orbini (d.1614), the Patarenes and the Manicheans[3]were two Christian religious sects in Bosnia. The Manicheans had a bishop cold djed and priests called strojnici (strojniks) as the same title ascribed to the leaders of the Bosnian Church.

    Some historians now believe that the Bosnian Church had largely disappeared before the Turkish conquest in 1463.

    The religious centre of the Bosnian Church was placed in Moštre, near Visoko, where the house of krstjani was founded.

    Characteristic

    The Church had its own bishop and used the Slavic language in liturgy. The bishop was called djed (lit. "grandfather"), and had a council of twelve men called strojnici. The monasteries were called hiža (lit. "house"), and the heads of monasteries were often called gost (lit. "guest") and served as strojnici.

    The Church was mainly composed of monks in scattered monastic houses. It had no territorial organization and it did not deal with any secular matters other than attending people's burials. It did not involve itself in state issues very much. Notable exceptions were when King Stephen Ostoja of Bosnia, a member of the Bosnian Church himself, had a djed as an advisor at the royal court between 1403 and 1405, and an occasional occurrence of a krstjan elder being a mediator or diplomat.

    The monumental tombstones called stećci (plural) / stećak (singular) that appeared in medieval Bosnia and Herzegovina are identified with the Bosnian Church.

    #367422

    Anonymous

    I am not too familiar also with this Bogumil church, but to my knowledge, it can be called first ever protestant church (after Great Schism), since they refused authority of Rome long before Luther's church.

    It indeed shows that people of Bosnia were very free to not be submissive to one or other church (West or East), like other Slavs at that time.

    Pictures of Bosnian church architecture:

    [img width=455 height=700]http://www.bosnia.org.uk/uploads/john%20fine%20-%20cover.jpg”/>

    image

    #367423

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I am not too familiar also with this Bogumil church, but to my knowledge, it can be called first ever protestant church (after Great Schism), since they refused authority of Rome long before Luther's church.

    It indeed shows that people of Bosnia were very free to not be submissive to one or other church (West or East), like other Slavs at that time.

    Pictures of Bosnian church architecture:

    [img width=455 height=700]http://www.bosnia.org.uk/uploads/john%20fine%20-%20cover.jpg”/>

    image

    This isn't Bosnian Church architecture. This is the St. Mary's Church with the St Luke's bell tower, it's in Jajce. This is a Catholic (Franciscan) church.

    #367424

    Anonymous

    ^That's okay. The Franscians converted some Bosnian Churchmen back to standard ( but still local variant of) Catholicism.

    I am not too familiar also with this Bogumil church, but to my knowledge, it can be called first ever protestant church (after Great Schism), since they refused authority of Rome long before Luther's church.

    It indeed shows that people of Bosnia were very free to not be submissive to one or other church (West or East), like other Slavs at that time.

    It wasn't a Bogomil church. Most people still think it was because the debunking of bogomilism in the Bosnian Church has been fairly recent. It wasn't even a protestant church. They didn't sever all ties to the Papacy either. They were a fringe Catholic sect.

    But to be truthful neither the standard Catholic church nor the Bosnian Church had any real solid influence in Bosnia , not until the Franciscans set up schools there. Bosnia is/was a very sparse and rugged land. The Church was stronger in the north and west of Bosnia but progressively weaker as one travelled further into Bosnia. There really were no great towns or cities in Bosnia during its middle ages and proper religious institutions were lacking. The Slavs of Bosnia were still Christian and nominally Catholic they were also geographically segregated from the clerical administrations of the North and West and adopted their own customs into the faith ( likely remnants of Slavic paganism).  Bogomils were something different and had a clearly defined dogma which was radically different than mainstream Catholicism or Orthodoxy.

    #367425

    Anonymous
    [size=18pt]Hijerarhija Crkve bosanske | Хијерархија Цркве босанске[/size]

    Organizacija Crkve bosanske podrazumijevala je određenu strukturu svojih članova u kojoj se zasebno prepoznaju njeni pojedini sastavni dijelovi. Na čelu je stajao Djed (did). Poslije njega slijede Strojnici u koje se ubrajaju Gosti i Starci. Zatim slijede Krstjani. Tom hijerarhijskom nizu odgovara njihova brojnost, koja se spušta u razinu najbrojnijih – krstjana. Djed nazivan did, episkup, je bio na čelu Crkve bosanske kao njen legitimni poglavar. On je predstavljao crkvu u vjerskom i društvenom pogledu u srednjovjekovnoj Bosni. Među strojnicima u višem rangu su bili gosti nego starci. Među najpoznatijima je gost Radin Butković. Među poznatim krstjanima su krstjanin Hval i krstjanin Vlatko Tumurlić.
    [hr]
    Организација Цркве босанске подразумијевала је одређену структуру својих чланова у којој се засебно препознају њени поједини саставни дијелови. На челу је стајао Дјед (дид). Послије њега слиједе Стројници у које се урбајају Гости и Старци. Затим слиједе Крстјани. Том хијерархијском низу одговара њихова бројност, која се спушта у разину најбројнијих – крстјана. Дјед називан дид, епискуп, је био на челу Цркве босанске као њен легитимни поглавар. Он је представљао цркву у вјерском и друштвеном погледу у средњовјековној Босни. Међу стројницима у вишем рангу су били гости него старци. Међу најпознатијима ја гост Радин Бутковић. Међу познатим крстјанима су Крстјанин Хвал и крстјанин Влатко Тумурлић.

    [size=18pt]Spisak djedova crkve bosanske | Списак дједова цркве босанске[/size]

    Poglavar crkve bosanske je tradicionalno nazivan djed. Najznačajniji historijski izvor koji govori o poglavarima bosanske crkve je "Popis bogomilskih vladara", koji se nalazi u evanđelju bosanskog tepačije Batala iz 1393. godine. U spisaku se nalazi spisak bogomilskih poglavara od sredine 11. vijeka, pa sve do 1393. godine. U Batalovom spisaku nalazi se 28 imena bogomilskih djedova, koja su podjeljena u dvije grupe, prema dvijema glavnim epohama iz života crkve bosanskih bogomila. Tih 28 djedova upravljali su bosanskom bogomilskom crkvom od 11. vijeka, pa sve do djeda Ratka, koji je upravljao krajem 14. vijeka.
    [hr]
    Поглавар цркве босанске је традиционално називан дјед. Најзначајнији хистроријски извор који говори о поглаварима босанске цркве је "Попис богомилских владара", који се налази у еванђељу босанског тепачије Батала из 1993. године. У списаку се налази списак богомилских поглавара од средине 11. вијека, па све до 1393. године. У Баталовом списаку налази се 28 имена богомилских дједова, која су подјељена у двије групе, према двијема главним епохама из живота цркве босанских богомила. Тих 28 дједова управљали су босанском богомилском црквом од 11. вијека, па све до дједа Ратка, који је управљао крајем 14. вијека.

    [table]
    [tr]
    [td]Prva Batalova lista djedova|Прва Баталова листа дједова


      [li]Jeremija|Јеремија (1010-1024)[/li]
      [li]Azarija|Азарија (1024-1038)[/li]
      [li]Kukleč|Куклеч (1038-1052)[/li]
      [li]Ivan|Иван (1052-1066)[/li]
      [li]Godin|Годин (1066-1080)[/li]
      [li]Tišemir|Тишемир (1080-1094)[/li]
      [li]Didodrag|Дидодраг (1094-1108)[/li]
      [li]Bučina|Бучина (1108-1122)[/li]
      [li]Krač|Крач (1122-1136)[/li]
      [li]Bratič|Братич (1136-1150)[/li]
      [li]Budislav|Будислав (1150-1164)[/li]
      [li]Dragoš|Драгош (1164-1181)[/li]
      [li]Dragič|Драгич (1182-1205)[/li]
      [li]Ljubin|Љубин (1205-1215)[/li]
      [li]Dražeta|Дражета (1215-1220)[/li]
      [li]Tomiša|Томиша (1220-1223)[/li]

    [/td]
    [td]Druga Batalova lista djedova|Друга Баталова листа дједова


      [li]Rastudije|Растудије (1228-1230)[/li]
      [li]Radoje|Радоје (1230-1244)[/li]
      [li]Radovan I|Радовар I (1244-1258)[/li]
      [li]Radovan II|Радовар II (1258-1272)[/li]
      [li]Hlapoje|Хлапоје (1272-1286)[/li]
      [li]Dragost|Драгост (1286-1300)[/li]
      [li]Povržen|Повержен (1300-1314)[/li]
      [li]Radoslav I|Радослав II (1314-1328)[/li]
      [li]Radoslav II|Радослав II (1328-1342)[/li]
      [li]Miroslav|Мирослав (1342-1356)[/li]
      [li]Boleslav|Болеслав (1356-1370)[/li]
      [li]Ratko I|Ратко I (1370-1393)[/li]

    [/td]
    [td]Treća lista djedova poznata iz savremenih izvora|Трећа листа дједова позната из савремених извора


      [li]Radomir|Радомир (1400-1414)[/li]
      [li]Mirohna|Мирохна (1414-1430)[/li]
      [li]Miloje|Милоје (1430-1450)[/li]
      [li]Ratko II|Ратко II  (1450-1465)[/li]
      [li]Nepoznati djed|Непознати дјед (1465-1480)[/li]

    [/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

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