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  • #345147

    Anonymous

    I am very much insterested in beer and brewing especially old time practices of brewing, etc. When checking out history of beer, etc. throught the world i often came accross data about that Bulgarians used to brew traditional beer called alovina, etc. in certain regions. I think it was traditional up to 19th century but i am not entirely sure. However still i am sure there must be at least some material about it but i can't speak Bulgarian so i ask any of you if there is any info please tell me about it. I am interested in all details. Very much on what kind of brewing prodecure they had. :D

    #412685

    Anonymous

    I found a quote and translated it via google. Sorry if it doesn't help. Perhaps mratinjak can explain it better

    The population of the Western Balkan and East Central Forest has cooking till the end of the XIX century, a kind of homemade beer called olovina, alovina, Lovina. It is prepared either from rye or rye and barley, or rye, oats, and in some places of oats, corn and barley.

    Very popular pickup Bulgarians was called Armenia razeol, pressing, Lahana. This is the cabbage soup that gets risen disc of cabbage in winter.

    As of drinks also includes folk Boza and mead. Making mead is an old Slavic tradition that is now forgotten. Mead is obtained by flooding honey with warm water and keep the mixture warm. After 4-5 days the mixture was filtered
    and fermented in open court. Sometimes mead made from crushed honeycomb, honey where as distilled spirits (Radeva, 1983, 296).
    By the middle of the XIX century in Bulgaria differentiate two types of food – rural and urban. Rural retains the characteristics of the old Bulgarian cuisine while cooking technology change occurs in cities. But along with new dishes in the kitchen urban tar and typical Bulgarian food – pulses roasted, steamed foods and pies (Radeva, 1983, 296).

    For calendar and family celebrations and customs of an old tradition in Bulgaria and the Bulgarians living outside its borders, even to the middle of the XX century (especially in villages) are made a certain kind of ritual food consisting of boiled wheat bread is rich symbolic images, or other offering strict calendar for the celebration or ritual meals.ични изображения, курбан или други строго определени за съответния календарен празник или обред ястия.

    http://www.promacedonia.org/nk_etno/nk_5b.htm

    #412686

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I found a quote and translated it via google. Sorry if it doesn't help. Perhaps mratinjak can explain it betterhttp://www.promacedonia.org/nk_etno/nk_5b.htm

    Ok thanks. Yes i hope Martinjak has anything more to add. :D

    #412687

    Anonymous

    Well, there's not much to add. The tradition has been interrupted in 19th century and I can't find any recipe in the Bulgarian net. I know they used to make it in my village back then, but since they don't plant any rye at all in my region since more than 100 years, nobody knows how to make it anymore. I'd assume it was more similar to Russian kvas than beer in both alcoholic percentage and taste.
    The word itself seems to be derived from *olъ 'fermented drink' (early borrowing from Old High German), and is attested in Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian as well as modern Bulgarian.

    #412688

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, there's not much to add. The tradition has been interrupted in 19th century and I can't find any recipe in the Bulgarian net. I know they used to make it in my village back then, but since they don't plant any rye at all in my region since more than 100 years, nobody knows how to make it anymore. I'd assume it was more similar to Russian kvas than beer in both alcoholic percentage and taste.
    The word itself seems to be derived from *olъ 'fermented drink' (early borrowing from Old High German), and is attested in Old Church Slavonic and Old Russian as well as modern Bulgarian.

    Ok thanks. :D I often noticed mentionings of Bulgarian alovina becouse here among Slovenes at least among Carinthians a brewing tradition of beer called ol, vuv, uew, etc, etc. also survived up to 19th century. Its not known about this by most folks nowdays. Our ol was brewed from various grains but most oftenly oat, wheat, barley or even buckwheat (which technically isnt grain). I managed to find some pretty old and detailed article about brewing process.

    I won't tell all secrets (muahahah) but wort was filtered with juniper twigs + juniper was main spice used in brewing besides hops. Actually i read often hops weren't even used or were in low quantaties. I asked about process of Bulgarian alovina becouse i want to see how close your brewing technique was to ours. Technically in its broader sense Kvass is sort of very "primitve" form of beer but still i believe Bulgar alovina must have been more akin to beer brewing. I could be wrong ofc.

    I would also argue that word ol is not Germanic (or solely Germanic) in origin at all. Acording to several pretty detailed articles about it i read that it is possibly PIE in origin or from caucasious. There were couple of those authors and at least one noted that idea that Slavic olovina, etc. must neccesarly steem from Germanic languages is far fetched. Indeed word ol is described in Slovene dictionary as old Slavic word for beer and Czech placename Olomouc is also said to descent from old Slavic term for beer. Anyways this word ol was sole word for beer in Slovene dictionaries before late 19th century. Besides ol and its various dialectical derivations we only had adoption of words per, pir from Middle High German.

    #412689

    Anonymous

    Hmm, you're right actually, my memory is playing tricks on me. Vasmer gives examples of Baltic, Greek and Latin cognates, as well as the Germanic ones.

    ол
    "всякий хмельной напиток, кроме виноградного вина; брага, пиво, мед", церк., олови́на "дрожжи (пивные), гуща", новгор., псковск., тверск. (Даль), др.-русск., русск.-цслав. (ХII в.) олъ σίκερα, болг. олови́на (Младенов 380), словен. olovina "пивные дрожжи", оl, род. п. оlа, olu "пиво". Балто-слав. основа на -u, ср. р. Вероятнее всего, родственно лит. alùs "пиво", др.-прусск. аlu ср. р. "хмельной мед", лтш. alus "пиво", др.-исл. o<l ср. р. "пиво, попойка", англос. еаlu (прагерм. *aluÞ, др.-исл. o<lÞr "пиршество", лат. аlūmеn "квасцы", alūta "кожа, обработанная квасцами", греч. ἀλύδοιμον ̇ πικρὸν παρὰ Σώφρονι (Гесихий); см. Мейе, Baudouinowi dе Соurtеnау 1 и сл.; ВSL 26, 134; И. Шмидт, Pluralb. 180; М.–Э. 1, 68; Траутман, ВSW 7; Махек, "Slavia", 8, 209 и сл. Далее с этими словами сближаются греч. ἀλέω "мелю", ἄλευρον "пшеничная мука", лат. аliса "полба"; см. Мейе–Эрну 37 и сл. Нельзя доказать происхождение из герм., вопреки Стендер–Петерсену (294 и сл.), Хирту (РВВ 23, 336), Шпехту (195 и сл.); см. Гуйер, LF 54, 293; Кипарский 78 и сл. Предполагают еще родство с яловый, ёлкий (см. Махек, там же; Френкель, ZfslPh 11, 37), что, однако, недостоверно ввиду аl- в греч. и лат. •• [Сюда же относится осет. æluton "пиво особой варки", известное еще скифскому, ср. имя ᾽Αλούθ-αγος в Ольвии. Осет. слово производят из др.-герм. alut "пиво"; см. Абаев, ОЯФ, I, стр. 60, 153; он же, Ист.-этимол. словарь, I, стр. 129–130; он же, сб. "Иранская филология", Л., 1964, стр. 8. – Т.]

    Plus it's not even attested in Old High German:

    image

    Orel, Vladimir. Handbook of Germanic Etymology. Leiden: Brill, 2003

    I stand corrected.  :)

    #412690

    Anonymous

    Interesting. :D Yes personally i am fan of interpretation that it's origin is general PIE. Somehow that is my impresion. I could be wrong ofc. since i am not linguist and even linguists aren't 100% sure. If anyone find anything more bout Bulgar alovina please inform me. Anywaya Martinjak is there at least known data which areas of Bulgaria brewed this alovina?

    #412691

    Anonymous

    The Slavic and Baltic words might still be borrowings from Germanic – phonetically there's no problem with it – but since the word was not attested in either Gothic or Old High German (the two main sources of Germanic  loans in PS), it's better to guess the word was native in order to avoid "proliferation of essences" by creating more reconstructions and assumptions. The Caucasian cognates are most deffinitely from Germanic though, and the only possible source could be Gothic (I think); so it's not that easy with the Slavic and Baltic ones. Anyways, comparative linguistics often needs a time machine to resolve some problems such as this one. We'll never know for sure.  ;)

    Quote:
    Anywaya Martinjak is there at least known data which areas of Bulgaria brewed this alovina?

    According to the source TzarSimenon posted, Western Balkan and Western Sredna Gora only.

    #412692

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to the source TzarSimenon posted, Western Balkan and Western Sredna Gora only.

    Ok thanks. So i imagine mountanious areas in west Bulgaria. :D

    #412693

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Ok thanks. So i imagine mountanious areas in west Bulgaria. :D

    Yep, and a bit of Central.

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