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  • #346535

    Anonymous

    This should be in the Croat subforum but it might get deleted without reason so I will leave it here.
    Is Cakavian a former language, now downgraded to the status of a dialect of another language (Stokavian, the so-called Serbo-Croatian or Bosnian-Croat-Serbian or whatever-where is Montenegrin here btw?) or has it always been a dialect of Serbo-Croatian? Cakavian and Stokavian have been codified roughly a millennium before Macedonian yet now the former is considered a dialect of the latter, yet still Macedonian is not considered of Bulgarian dialect despite it coexisting with Eastern Bulgarian and Banat Bulgarian just like Stokavian and Cakavian have been doing. Only genuine linguists consider Macedonian a Bg dialect, the other, politically correct ones, don't (the former category is the much lesser one). Macedonian is considered either a stand-alone language or a Sb dialect.
    Was Cakavian ever a language (From a strictly linguistical viewpoint, not from an ethnical one)? Is it possible for languages to exist and then to become dialects of a closely related language (maybe the same one it evolved from as a stand-alone language)?

    #431794

    Anonymous

    Serbo-Croatian doesn`t exist. They are two different languages. In one part of croatian history Čakavski was "unofficial" official language.

    #364038

    Anonymous

    Instead of petty unity we have this bickering over petty differences. Serbo-Croatian was a standardised form of stokavian dialect. It still exists but is no longer official. Official standards in Serbia and Croatia are now different but mutually intelligible and both based on stokavian. You can call them different languages because as we know language is any dialect with an army. They are different in the same way as Danish and Norwegian are. We all know it is the same language but we all pretend it is not.

    #348916

    Anonymous

    Čakavian has alwas been a dialect of Croatian, and contrary to popular belief, it is mutually intelligible with every other Croatian dialect. Of course, there are words that differ and accent of the words, but an average educated Croat should be able to understand it. My grandma is čakavian, my grandpa is kajkavian and my mother is štokavian so I speak every dialect and know that they are all parts of the same language and neither one of them should be considered a separate language.

    #349120

    Anonymous

    Appointment
    of languages
    is a political act, and that politics, the art of advocacy “svoijuh ‘interests,
    while respecting the” foreign
    “interests, achieving consensus,
    it is clear that political decisions,
    most often have nothing to do with logic and reality.

    The
    same thing goes for the appointment of the language, its standardization
    and codification. Štokavian speech, which
    in essence is a
    special language, gave birth to Serbo-Croatian
    language. Serbo-Croatian language
    is totally artificial
    language, which no
    one before his inventing spoke. It was invented by an Austrian officer and
    spy Vuk Karadzic.
    Austrian Empire had plans about constructing
    nations of the
    Balkan Slavs. The first step was to create a completely
    new language, which none of them spoke to
    clude historical memory of the nation.

    Today’s various languages, resulting policy
    decisions of the national elite,
    the dialects of Serbo-Croatian
    language. Kajkavski language is
    not a dialect Štokavian language, but a special
    language, one and
    Chakavian, the western
    edge of the štokavski areas,
    as well as Torlački or Macedonian language, on the eastern edge of the
    štokavski areas.

    #349096

    Anonymous

    @SkandaloznaSkroz Don’t be silly.Put someone from Slavonia into Zagorje or Istria,and they’ll think they are on another planet.One of my favorite statements by the serbophone Croats is when they go to kajkavski speaking regions and say “dude,they don’t even speak Croatian there” :D

    #349094

    Anonymous

    @Gvarda Dude, I know a lot of people and they all understand both cakavian and kajkavian, we had to read books in kajkavian and cakavian in school for lektira (ne znam kak se lektira kaze na engleskom), at least us younger generations had to. They’re not separate languages, never were and never will be. End of story.

    #349091

    Anonymous

    @SkandaloznaSkroz @Gvarda even we in Serbia have t read “lektira” in those dialects

    #349092

    Anonymous

    @SkandaloznaSkroz You only think you know it.I can take you to Zagorje or Istria or some island,and you’ll have trouble understanding them unless you are intimately familiar with the dialects.Kajkavski and čakavski are dialects of Croatian language,while štokavski is Serbian.Even the words are very different.

    #349088

    Anonymous

    BTW lektira is “book report”..

    #349086

    Anonymous

    @Gvarda can you name some linguist which will back your statements. Serbophone Croats hehehe
    Fully agree with @SkandaloznaSkroz 

    #349071

    Anonymous

    @Gvarda Russians say što, Bulgarians say što, Macedonians say što, Bosnians too. So how did you conclude that it’s Serbian? There are documents from 1192 from west bosnia which are in štokavian. Slavic people share a common history, it’s normal that they speak in similar ways, especially because croats and serbs live in the same region. That doesn’t make štokavski serbian nor does it make it croatian. All of us Balkan Slavs first spoke old church slavonic which then developed into different languages but we retained the word ‘što’. It’s just common sense. Još samo fali da kažeš da je kajkavsko narječje zapravo dijalekt slovenskog haha

    #349067

    Anonymous

    @Gvarda also, the words are different because of the influence of neighbouring countries or the countries that occupied the area. That’s why kajkavians use many german words, and čakavians italian words.

    #349064

    Anonymous

    @Knezivan I can’t.

    #349065

    Anonymous

    @SkandaloznaSkroz The word “što” doesn’t make a language.The fact that that word is shared by multiple Slavic languages means nothing here.Russian,Macedonian and Bulgarian aren’t mutually intelligible with Croatian or Serbian.Bosnian doesn’t exist,it’s Serbian.By different words I do not mean the loanwords,but the native Slavic words.

    P.S.-If we know that Slovenian is just another way of saying Slavic,then one could indeed say that kajkavski is a dialect of Slovenian.

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