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  • #344734

    Anonymous

    Bok i dobar dan!
    I am a man coming from a mountainous place in central Greece, called Kissavo (the state of Greece about 100 years ago changed its name to Ossa, but still the local people call it using its original name). I recently found out that the name of the mountain comes from Croatian language and means “rainy place”. It’s a place with rainy weather all year long. I also found out that the original name of the village of my grandfather and nearby villages also come from Croatian and my last name too. My grandfather also used some words that have no meaning in greek, but they come from Croatian language. Some of these words can be found only in Croatian, not Serbian or other South-slavic languages. I have no idea if my grandfather knew anything about our origins and now i can’t ask him because he passed away many years ago. Maybe he knew but he had fear to talk about it. Here, in greek history books, the Slavs are presented as the “bad guys” of the Balkans and it was some years ago a crime to call a place with its original (slavic) name. Not to mention that many slavic people suffered by the greek state in past centuries. Moreover, the people coming from my place generally have blonde or light brown hair and blue, green or light borwn eyes, something not so usual in Greece. In greek history books they talk about some Slav nomad tribes, that came to Greece and then left Greece. Searching history books and references, i found out that Croats and other slavic tribes related to them came to Greece from 6th century and on and formed independent small states all over the greek peninsula, the so-called “sklavinies” or “sklaviniae”, that survived as independent states for many centuries. So, i had been taught lots of lies in the greek history books and had no idea of my true origins. Many big cities of today’s Greece, especially in Thessaly and Epirus, were founded by those “sklavenites” (the people living in the “sklavinies”).
    Many people here (they must be several hundreds thousands of people) have slavic origin and have absolutely no idea about it. It’s the effects of the “hypnotics” they serve in the history books. I was really amazed when i found out what is the true meaning of all these words that i had no idea where they came from. Sadly, the old “Yugoslavia” did nothing to protect our ethnic identity. Maybe they didn’t even know about our existance or they did not want to break their relations with Greece. I don’t know why. In old times people used to get married from the same or nearby villages (like my grandparents and their parents), so the slavic identity survived. Nowadays there is a great danger that it will be lost forever, because people migrate to other cities or even other countires. I have seen that Croatia has recognized minorities in almost all Balkan states and Italy included, but not in Greece. Have they done any research about it? I am very interested to see if there has been any research and what were the results.

    #352661

    Anonymous

    Well, even though I didn’t like Yugoslavia because of communism, Yugoslavia in fact did try to help the Slavs in Greece. However Stalin at one point settled some deal with Western allies and left you off. As far as I know there were revolts in post-WW2 Greece and that’s why you get many Macedonian Slavs of Greece living in Canada and Australia. Its why Yugoslavs needed visa for Greece but not for USA.

    #352660

    Anonymous

    Mate, have you read Fallmereyer? He’s quite a controversial old-timey figure and especially hated by modern Greeks. I’m not saying I agree with his theory about the origins of modern Greeks, of course, but it is a fact that there’s a substantial Slavic historical heritage in the Greek lands and it was alive and prospering at least until a couple centuries ago.

    #352659

    Anonymous

    There were several resettlements of Greeks from Asia Minor starting with in the middle ages and the last one in the 1920s all in an attempt to combat the slavic plague. The only part where the original population remained from antiquity until today is in Macedonia, where they’re mostly all descendants of Alexander. Apropos, “kisha” means wet snow – slush in Bulgarian.

    #352656

    Anonymous

    @Shaokang
    As far as i know, Stalin and Tito did some things to help Slavs (basically Macedonians, Bulgarians and Serbs) that live in greek part of Macedonia and Thrace. They never did anything about the Slavs that live in central and southern Greece (who basically are of Croat or Slovene origin).

    @NikeBG
    Yes, i recently found about Fallmereyer and i think he is right in most of the things he claimed. I can tell you there are some thousands of people of slavic origin, even in southern Greece, like Peloponnesus, but they have been brainwashed for centuries by the greek state and most of them have no idea of their true origins.

    @aaaaa
    Those who came from Asia Minor were not all Greeks. Basically they were christian Turks, Persians, Arabs or other Asians and a few Greeks and Armenians etc. Another myth of greek history books is that Asia Minor was from ancient times greek, so christians of Asia Minor were Greeks. They were Turks, Persians, Arabs or Azeris that were christianized by the Byzantium Romans, the so-called “Turkopoli” and many of them spoke only turkish (the so-called “karamanlidika”). The governors of Greece for decades, the Karamanlis family, were from there. The Karamans is a turkish-azeri tribe and they come from there. When they came to Greece, most of them did not know a single word in greek.
    Kissavo comes from words
    kiša = rain and ovo = here
    The
    š is written with a double s in greek.
    The Byzantines and the Ottomans basically brought Albanians and Romanian Vlachs in order to “control” Slavs. But the Slavs were moving to the mountains, were they could live in a semi-free condition. Note that Greeks were also against the Byzantine Romans, because they were destroying their civilization and temples and killed them. They were allies to the Slavs, who -at least the first centuries- were also pagans.

    #352655

    Anonymous

    Modern Greek history is indeed somewhat schizophrenic concerning the Eastern Roman Empire (aka Byzantium). If they’re just Greeks then perhaps a good solution would be for Bulgaria to take Constantinople and incorporate them into a legitimate empire again. Moesia, Thrace, Macedonia and Greece – I like the sound of that. Can someone count the seas around a construct like that?

    #352654

    Anonymous

    “in Greece there is a Charváti (Χαρβάτι) in Attica and Harvation in Argolis, as well as Charváta (Χαρβάτα) on Crete;”

    https://books.google.hr/books?id=Y0NBxG9Id58C&pg=PA60&lpg=PA60&dq=slavic+settlement+greece&source=bl&ots=k4sQ96WLYc&sig=v9JncGBbXhVSII2YYAmSlEZxUgQ&hl=hr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiC4pCX7-nRAhVHXhoKHcAKCGAQ6AEIYDAL#v=onepage&q=slavic%20settlement%20greece&f=false

    https://www.rastko.rs/arheologija/tstefanovicova-greece_e.html

    http://ancient-medieval-macedonian-history.blogspot.hr/2010/06/slavs-in-byzantine-empire.html

    You can find here something of interest.
    Several ancient authors mentioned Croats in today Greece. They were mostly mercs and raiders, but they could easily settle in that area and they could organize a small local communities. In central and northern Greece until 16. century you can easily heard Slavic language in some areas. During some time that Slavs were greecized…

    Interesting topic, i must research more about this.

    Can you write here some words that are of Croat orgin?

    #352653

    Anonymous

    @Kissavo If you don’t remember examples of some of the non-greek words and phrases that was spoken in your region, then perhaps you could ask someone from the older generations in your community?

    A lot of the ethnographic maps from the late 1800s/early 1900s do not depict any slavic populations in your region of Thessaly.  However, if there was a slavic population in that region of Thessaly, it may have Hellenized long ago.  For example, in Northern Greek Macedonia, slavic populations did exist and it has been documented through the ages, and the language is sparsely spoken today, but most living there identify as Greeks now.  I know for example, that the Greek Orthodox Church in Dad’s village in Northern Greek Macedonia was built as early as the 16th Century.  So a process of Hellenization to slavic populations in Modern day Greece could have occurred a long time ago.

    In reference to your comment – “Moreover, the people coming from my place generally have blonde or light
    brown hair and blue, green or light brown eyes, something not so usual
    in Greece.” –

    a) I know quite a few Greeks with blue eyes and they come from various parts of Greece, so I don’t think that is necessarily a slavic trait.  

    b) I also know a few Greeks with Blonde hair from your region of Thessaly, but nonetheless, fair hair colour can be traced to depictions from Ancient Greece/Ancient Macedon in a number of mosaics found in Greece; so its not necessarily a slavic trait to have light hair, but it is a possibility to be a slavic trait also.

    Mosaic found at Pella – Red/Blonde-hair:
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Deer_hunt_mosaic_from_Pella.jpg

    #352651

    Anonymous

    Thanks for the information, i will read it later on.
    For example, the croat word for bulb is žarulja, while the Serbs use the word sijalica.
    In Peloponnesus, southern Greece, you find lot of people with the last name Ζαρούλιας (pronounced zarulias).
    There is a member of greek parliament, coming from the mountains of Peloponnesus, with the name Eleni Zaroulias. As you can see in the photo, she clearly has croatian characteristics.

    Another example is the last name Κουτίνας (pronounced kutinas), very common in Thessaly. Kutina is a city in Croatia and the name of a tree in Slovenia and Croatia.
    The “greek” champion of karate, Mihalis Kutinas, coming from Tirnavos (greek spelling of Trnovo) in the image below.

    http://tinypic.com/r/358wi9y/9

    Also look at my avatar. He is a greek football player, that was member of Greece’s national team and his name is Vasilios Pliatsikas (Pljačkaš).

    All these people have been brainwashed from little kids that they are all the same with Albanians, Turks, Romanians, Arabs and other ethnic groups of Greece.

    #352650

    Anonymous

    > For example, the croat word for bulb is žarulja, while the Serbs use the word sijalica.

    I don’t speak Croatian or Serbian but I think I can determine etymologies of both words without referencing dictionaries.

    #352641

    Anonymous

    Pljačkaš sounds like a good lead,especially if one takes into account what KnezIvan said about mercenaries in Greece.

    #352638

    Anonymous

    You could also look at Eleni Pliatsika, a Greek model and miss Greece some years ago.
    She comes from the city of Grevena (greben = cliff). There is a huge cliff there. 

     http://www.espressonews.gr/sites/default/files/oldarticles/article_385420_1.jpg

    My grandfather for example used to say “bubnikia” when he referred to insects. That comes from buba = insect. 

    #352630

    Anonymous

    Now you know why Greece doesn’t count ethnic groups in census’ held there

    #352620

    Anonymous

    Let’s take a look in the list of phone numbers of Greece, shall we?
    I will start with the 3 examples of last names i mentioned above and i will give you other 2 (as a present :D )

    Last name Zaroulias can be found basically in Peloponnese, a few places of Macedonia and Athens (due to internal migration) *density of phone numbers per 10000 phone numbers

    Last name Kutinas is present in Thessaly and Epirus (and Athens, Salonica, due to internal migration)

    Last name Pliatsikas mostly found in Thessaly and Epirus and a couple of places in Macedonia (and Athens, Salonica, Rhodes, due to internal migration)

    Another last name mostly found in Thessaly is Μπρούζας (Bruzas), possibly coming from Broz (the last name of Tito).

    Another last name you find in Greece is Χαρβάτης (Harvatis). I think no further explanations are needed for this last name. Mostly found in Peloponnese and Thessaly.

    #352577

    Anonymous

    Especially in the mountainous regions of Greece were settled Slavs. For example in my village, in the mountains of northern Peloponnese we know that we are of montenegrin/serbian origin. Even my generation still uses plenty of words that I found them in serbian language(krastavac/kastraveci, krava/krava-we use it for women with bad and lazy behaviour-, selo/selo itd). My village’s name is Zemeno which obviously is etymologically related with Zemun in Serbia. But I don’t know if we can identify ourselves as Slavs after sooo many years. Genetically yes, we are Slavs but ethnically I am not so sure that people nowadays would accept that idea. 

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