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  • #345003

    Anonymous

    So I have been browsing wiki and numbers I found seems too small to me. Is there any idea of how big population of Rusyns could be?

    #409388

    Anonymous

    in carpathian region:

    last census (2011) in slovakia:
    33 482 declared rusyn ethnicity, however 55 469 declared rusyn native language. assessing the situation in slovakia, lets work with the latter number (which is still quite pessimistic)
    Poland: wiki says 10 000 declared Lemko or "Polish-Lemko" ethnicity. unofficial estimates say there are more of them, but this is confirmed, lets work with that.
    Ukraine: "they dont exist". Regional data of transcarpathia region say theres about 10 000 of them. some organization operating in that area did a parallel census in 2 districts, according to which about 200 000 people declared rusyn ethnicity. they say that real number in subcarpathian rus may be over 800 000. however for sake of this thread and considering the fervent ukrainization (and often violent), lets take the pessimistic number – 200 000 – into our consideration.
    over 50 000 people in romania declared Ukrainian ethnicity (preliminary data from 2011 census, still incomplete, apparently romanians are slow at counting), most of them living in north of the country, near borders with ukraine. SOME of them are rusyns. estimates put their number from 7 000 to 40000. ukrainization was strong and again we pick up the lower number, which is probably closer to reality.

    outside carpathians (europe):

    (wiki data)
    Hungary – about 1000, estimates are higher but untrustworthy
    Czech republic – about 1000
    Serbia (rusnacy) – 15 626
    Croatia (rusnacy) – 2337 + many other declare themselves at ukrainian, while speaking eastern slovak – slovjak – language. well lets ignore those for now.

    population in usa – few hundred thousands, but i dont take this into consideration, theyre highly americanized, most cant speak the language. many of them are active in various rusyn organizations, but lets count only european population now.



    so lets count all the bolded numbers. the result is:
    292 432
    with a tiny bit of optimism, i say theres about 300 000 rusyns in europe.

    #409389

    Anonymous

    quite a lot ,considering these all are pesimistic predictions  :D

    #409390

    Anonymous

    Think it is very hard to get an accurate count.  I understand the views about American rusyns, but since the late 1980's, there has been an increased awarness and interest in Rusyn culture.  It has been hard now that so many ethnic Rusyns have left the northeast and rust belt.  Many have moved to the south and southwest.  There are many Greek rite and orthodox churches in that region now.  Only issue is that they usually only have mass in English.  We are trying to return to our roots and actually many American Rusyns have been involved in establishing scholarly works about Rusyns and their culture.

    #409391

    Anonymous

    According book Magocsi, Paul Robert: Národ znikadiaľ … there was official 104 100 rusyns in world ( year 2001)… but estimated number is 1 654 500.

    #409392

    Anonymous

    1,5 million is fantasy, and official numbers arent trustworthy in case of ukraine.

    #409393

    Anonymous

    Unfortunately, all numbers are based on those who acknowledge Rusyn has an ethnicity. Nothing from Ukraine is valid because the Ukrainians mute the Rusyn existence. Rusyns in Ukraine exaggerate. And in places like here in Serbia, where they are actually recognized the numbers are fairly accurate. However, I know a guy in Novi Sad. His father is Rusyn; his mother is Serb. I don't know what he considers himself – Serb or Rusyn. So any mixes like that will alter numbers.

    As for those in the US – I get that. However, any Rusyn in any country with be -ized somewhat to whatever country they live in. Not as much as American Rusyns, true. But for those in the USA, they are truly trying to rekindle their roots and bring them back. Many come from families that when they immigrated to the USA it was forbidden or discouraged to continue on with your roots. You were to be American and that's it. The organizations and societies in the USA do more to promote the culture and heritage than many in Slavic countries. They organize trips to Rusyn areas, offer language courses, and various other things to help establish themselves again.

    So in the end, it's really however you want to classify Rusyns and where you choose to pull numbers. However, I don't think anyone has a true idea as to how many Rusyns there are worldwide or even in just Europe.

    #409394

    Anonymous

    as i said, in case of ukraine i had four numbers to choose:
    0
    10 000 (official)
    200 000 (confirmed unofficial estimate)
    800 000 (unconfirmed unofficial estimate)

    i didnt count american rusyns not because of some whatnot reasons, but because i wanted to count european population of rusyns.

    americanization. if rusyn american from usa without knowledge of the language comes to europe, in most cases he would be considered american. since we dont know how many would be accepted to be rusyn and how many still speak rusyn (actually these 2 variables can be unrelated to each other).
    its like with family. belonging to family requires a degree of acceptance from other members. for example your blood relative (brother for example) can be expelled from family and hes not part of it anymore. while some woman unrelated to you may become your aunt through marriage (if shes accepted). being rusyn, similarly as being part of family, first of all requires a general acceptance, not descent.

    #409395

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    as i said, in case of ukraine i had four numbers to choose:
    0
    10 000 (official)
    200 000 (confirmed unofficial estimate)
    800 000 (unconfirmed unofficial estimate)

    i didnt count american rusyns not because of some whatnot reasons, but because i wanted to count european population of rusyns.

    americanization. if rusyn american from usa without knowledge of the language comes to europe, in most cases he would be considered american. since we dont know how many would be accepted to be rusyn and how many still speak rusyn (actually these 2 variables can be unrelated to each other).
    its like with family. belonging to family requires a degree of acceptance from other members. for example your blood relative (brother for example) can be expelled from family and hes not part of it anymore. while some woman unrelated to you may become your aunt through marriage (if shes accepted). being rusyn, similarly as being part of family, first of all requires a general acceptance, not descent.

    Completely understand and do agree. Especially when it comes to statistics. And yes.. Ukrainian numbers are a joke.

    #409396

    Anonymous

    sorry i accidentally deleted part of a sentence
    i wrote:

    since we dont know how many would be accepted to be rusyn and how many still speak rusyn (actually these 2 variables can be unrelated to each other).

    should be:

    i didnt want to count american rusyns in, since we dont know how many would be accepted to be rusyn and how many still speak rusyn (actually these 2 variables can be unrelated to each other).

    and yes, there were actually 2 official ukrainian numbers. both 0 and 10 000 were official  ;D

    #409397

    Anonymous

    To be honest,  can you survive in Serbia or Slovakia only speaking Rusyn?  Would that be what you speak with family or friends?  I would think you could use Rusyn in Ukraine as to communicate in public.

    #409398

    Anonymous

    Would I be considered into the Rusyn population. How much ancestry does one have to have? 50% minimum?

    #409399

    Anonymous

    Well, I bet that 99,9% of Rusyns do not speak slovak language amongs their family or friends. I actually do not speak Slovak as well unless I am nin public or school.  ;D

    #409400

    Anonymous

    no rodv. however most people are at least bilingual.
    what i want is more space for minorities and minority languages. many, i dare to say majority of people in slovakia dont know who rusyns are, for example. and such cases are found even in eastern slovakia. thats because rusyn language and culture are ignored everywhere, as if slovakia were only slovaks and some bad hungarians and gypsies.

    xekoslav, its like asking about weather forecast for 1 year.

    #409401

    Anonymous

    Do you think it would help is kids had to learn one minority language in Slovak schools?  I do respect that most Slavic nations have multilingual citizens.  We Americans are terrible at speaking other languages and schools don't teach it very well.  In NJ,  the teaching standards for foreign language teachers is very high yet the curriculum is very weak in schools.  You spend as much time with culture as you do learning to speak a language

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