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  • #341626

    Anonymous

    Atheists Have No Reason to be Moral:
    The idea that atheists have no reason to be moral without a god or religion may be the most popular and repeated myth about atheism. It comes up in many forms and all are based on the assumption that the only valid source of morality is a theistic religion, preferably the religion of the speaker which is usually Christianity. Thus without Christianity, people cannot live moral lives. This is supposed to be a reason reject atheism and convert to Christianity but the argument fails because contrary to the beliefs of theists, their god and their religion are not needed for morality. Atheists & Morality

    God is Required for Morality:

    If religious theists find that they aren't getting anywhere arguing that there can't be any moral standards without their god, they sometimes switch to arguing that without a god to provide an objective set of standards then there is no way to choose which is the best among the various human standards — why not accept Nazi standards, for example? It's a mistake to assume that only a set of objective, absolute standards can provide us with any guidance in moral matters, though. An atheistic morality is not one that is necessarily lost or incapable of providing structure to our lives. Morality Requires God

    Morals and Values Prove that God Exists:
    Separate but connected, the arguments from morals and values make up what are known as the Axiological Arguments (axios = value). According to the Argument from Values the existence of universal human values and ideals means that there must be a God who created them. The Argument from Morals asserts that morality can only be explained by the existence of a God who created us. This is a popular argument for God, but it fails. Morals Prove the Existence of God

    Atheists Have No Reason to Care About Others:

    This myth may appear to be incoherent, but it's an expression of a popular theistic argument against atheistic materialism. Religious theists believe that "immaterial" feelings like love cannot have a material basis and must, instead, come from our immaterial souls which are created by an immaterial God. If someone doesn't believe that such immaterial beings are real, then they must not believe that immaterial feelings like love are real. This is based on a fallacious argument that misrepresents atheism and materialism. Why Do Atheists Care About Others

    Atheistic Evolution Cannot Account for the Human Conscience:

    If religious theists are unable to demonstrate that atheists cannot justify a morality outside of the existence of their god, then some switch to arguing that our desire to have a morality and our basic sense for what's right or wrong cannot exist without a god. We might be able to find rationalizations for our behavior outside of God, but ultimate we cannot avoid concluding that God is responsible for our having a conscience because that could never have evolved naturally. This is incorrect because evolution can explain the development of human morals. Evolution of Human Morality

    Atheists Can't Teach Right & Wrong to Children:
    There is a popular and mistaken perception among religious theists that irreligious atheists have no good reason to be moral and, therefore, cannot be as moral as religious theists. Usually this misunderstanding is expressed as an abstract principle, removed from practical consequences; here, however, we have a myth that is just such a practical application of that misunderstanding. It's also completely untrue: atheists do not have trouble teaching morality to their children. Atheists Teaching Morality

    Morality Requires Absolute, Objective Standards:

    How can we adopt a moral system without there being a God? If God does not exist, is there any basis for ever being moral? That's the fundamental issue when discussing atheistic and theistic morality — not whether atheistic morality exists at all but instead whether any atheistic morality can reasonably be adopted. Thus some religious theists argue that only the existence of objective standards which we are required to obey provide a secure basis for morality and moral behavior. This is only one possible conception of morality, though, and probably not the best one. Morality & Objective Standards

    Atheists Have No Reason to Fear Death or Punishment:
    The myth that atheists have no reason to fear death or punishment is one of the oddest and most difficult to understand — but it is a real one that I've seen expressed by Christians. Not only is this myth the opposite of what reality is, but it doesn't even appear at first glance to contain an expected criticism like these myths usually do. So what if atheists don't fear death of punishment? Why is this a problem? The explanation is somewhat complex, but it appears that this is a problem if you believe that death and punishment are necessary for maintaining social order. Atheists, Death, and Punishment

    Do Godless Morals & Values Exist? Are They Superior to Godly, Religious Values?:

    It';s common for religious theists to claim that their religious morality is far superior to secular, atheistic, and godless morality. Of course everyone prefers their own religious morality and the commands of their own god, but when push comes to shove the general attitude is that any religious morality based upon the commands of any god is vastly preferable to a secular morality that doesn't take any gods into account. Godless atheists are treated as the scourge of the earth and their "morality," if it is even recognized as such, is treated as the cause of all of society's ills. Godless Morals, Ethics, and Values

    Atheists Let Whims of Society Define their Behavior, Morality:
    One of the most common distinctions which religious theists try to draw between themselves and atheists is how they follow absolute, objective, eternal, and transcendent standards laid down by God while atheists follow well, something much less and certainly not as good. There are thus many myths about atheists surrounding the presumed nature of what atheists believe and how they construct their sense of morality. In this one, atheists are told they base everything on the whims of society. Atheists Let Whims of Society Define Morality

    #349693

    Anonymous

    Didn't read it all, but i am a Christian and I believe in God and i go to church every sunday and sometimes even during a week and still i don't think that atheist can't be moral just because they don't believe in God, on contrary i even believe that there are much better atheists ( as persons ) then there are some ( not few, but quite a lot ) Christians.
    So, I think that society actully sets rules for moral, but I guess people believe in what they want to, including moral values :D

    #349694

    Anonymous

    From the greek "ethos", meaning "conduct" and "costume", since Aristotle, the term refers to the area of philosophy that deals with the principles which are judged by human actions, behaviors and choices: the morality. The fundamental problems concerning ethics course, the objectivity of values and principles for guiding human action, like good and evil, but it also includes issues related to human actions and the responsibility that goes with it (such as freedom, justice, equality, etc…). After that I can say, morality is a point of view and its something abstract. Morality is based only on religion, philosophy and historical events. We have set the moral principles, such as not killing, not stealing and so on. I wonder, who would not kill to defend a loved one if the need requires it? Those who do not rob to feed his child? Morality is subjective, if it is wrong to steal for the morality, for me its right to steal to feed my sons. Do atheists have no reason to be moral? Refering to moral principles: they have like the others have.

    #349695

    Anonymous

    Actualy it is imposible to say if atheism has or hasnt reason for values becouse all atheists had religious ancestors so value system of their religious ancestors is often passed on to them.
    I would say that 90% of western values come from christianity. So its very hard to say how would atheism develope if there wouldnt be christianity.

    One good example of atheist going berserk is Colombine Shooting. The main character in colombine shootings was Eric Harris who was staunch beliver in natural selection. He even had t-shirt natural selection on the shooting day.

    #349696

    Anonymous

    Point of view depends of point of sitting (or something like that (my English sux)). Atheists are moral, but their moral code is different from Christian moral code. Christians consider them immoral. That's way atheist wage war against Christianity.

    Atheists can by more moral than Christians, but unfortunate most are hedonistic. Since they don't believe in eternal life, judgement and hell, they think that the only reason to live is to fell as much pleasure as they can.

    #349697

    Anonymous

    Christian and Atheist are equaly moral. But it all realy depends from person to person. Christians are most numerous in the world so it is mathematicaly logical that there are more bad and immoral people among Christians.

    There is no group of people in this world, either religious or irreligious that is immune from Infiltration of bad and corrupted men. Just look at various charity organisations. Lets hypoteticaly say that there is about 90% of good people in charity organisations and there is 10% of bad people who exploit those organisations.

    If you just consider that at least 10% of Chirstian folk is bad and immoral. Wow that would be huge number.

    What i dont like from many hardcore atheist is, they often think that they are "Über intelligent mensch" just becouse they dont belive in God.

    Atheists all have moral code but question is what kind of moral code? Todays atheists usualy adopt some kind of christian values. But it wasnt always like that. I dont suppose 18th century Reing of Terror and Cult of Reason is good example of atheist values?

    Many people today think that Darwin was hated by Christians becouse of his evolution and natural selection. No! Not becouse of evolution and natural selection itself but becouse of its by-product; Social Darwinism.

    Social Darwinism is 19th century atheist idea that tried to prove trough evolution and natural selection that some people are inferior. It supported scientific racism and eugenics. Social Darwinism ultimately produced fascism and nazism.

    It is no supprise that all major massacres and genocides were done in 19th century colonies and WWII.

    #349698

    Anonymous

    There are no ateists really, everyone belives in something, weater they call it God or simply good or anything else. It is really impossible for a human being to not belive in something.

    #349699

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    From the greek "ethos", meaning "conduct" and "costume", since Aristotle, the term refers to the area of philosophy that deals with the principles which are judged by human actions, behaviors and choices: the morality. The fundamental problems concerning ethics course, the objectivity of values and principles for guiding human action, like good and evil, but it also includes issues related to human actions and the responsibility that goes with it (such as freedom, justice, equality, etc…). After that I can say, morality is a point of view and its something abstract. Morality is based only on religion, philosophy and historical events. We have set the moral principles, such as not killing, not stealing and so on. I wonder, who would not kill to defend a loved one if the need requires it? Those who do not rob to feed his child? Morality is subjective, if it is wrong to steal for the morality, for me its right to steal to feed my sons. Do atheists have no reason to be moral? Refering to moral principles: they have like the others have.

    Well there is difference between moral and ethics.

    Morality is the generally accepted standards of behavior within the society at a point in time (for society), for single person it is spoken of as either a set of personal standards that make up the individual’s character, or the degree of the individual’s attachment to the generally accepted standards of behavior held within a society at a particular point in time.

    On other hand  ethics Ethics is the body of principles used to decide what behaviors are right, good and proper.  Such principles (ethics) do not always dictate a single "moral" course of action, but provide a means of evaluating and deciding among competing options. Ethics is about putting principles into action.  Consistency between what we say we value and what our actions say we value is a matter of integrity.

    #349700

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There are no ateists really, everyone belives in something, weater they call it God or simply good or anything else. It is really impossible for a human being to not belive in something.

    I need to answer here, because I had seen a strange thinking in some people. Anyone is able to not believe in something. Theist is a believer. Atheist is an unbeliever. Simple. But "(un)believer" in case of God or gods, not good or evil. This first has spiritual content. Anyone believe in something, but it is not connected with metaphysics so it is non-sense to describe anyone as theist, because he believe in that tomorrow Sun will rise again. Good and evil, our morality, system of thinking and this, how we see world is something else. There is no God in here, if u do not believe in his existance. There are your own thoughts, not clergy.

    This is what define atheists – no God here.

    #349701

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well there is difference between moral and ethics.

    Morality is the generally accepted standards of behavior within the society at a point in time (for society), for single person it is spoken of as either a set of personal standards that make up the individual’s character, or the degree of the individual’s attachment to the generally accepted standards of behavior held within a society at a particular point in time.

    On other hand  ethics Ethics is the body of principles used to decide what behaviors are right, good and proper.  Such principles (ethics) do not always dictate a single "moral" course of action, but provide a means of evaluating and deciding among competing options. Ethics is about putting principles into action.  Consistency between what we say we value and what our actions say we value is a matter of integrity.

    This is a good explanation.

    #349702

    Anonymous

    Hmmm…let's see…all the worst crimes in history were made by "religious" and "god loving" people. Crusades, witch hunting, Inquisition, both world wars, etc. One of the most religious countries in the world is USA…and then you have two nukes dropped on Japan, Korean war, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria…Iran next? Where's morality and ethics there? How about 9/11? And all the mass murders and crimes in USA? USA has about 320 million people and about 8 million in prison! China has 1.5 billion and only 2 million in prison! Says much? It doesn't matter if a person is religious or atheist…if you are bad person, you are a bad person! It's as simple as that! People are not born bad or murderers…they become one due time spent in corrupt societies, bad parents and lousy friends. No society norms, morals or ethics can stop a kid on a murder rampage in school…but if afterwards he goes to church on a confession, says 10 "hail mary's", he's "forgiven" and he goes to "heaven"? rofl!
    My opinion is that religious people are under pressure and scared all their lives…atheists are free and they know that only they are responsible for their actions. Atheists can't say "the devil made me do it" when they screw up, so, they tend to be more self-aware and responsible…. and yes, I'm an hard-core atheist…
    JM2C

    #349703

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    all the worst crimes in history were made by "religious" and "god loving" people.

    I think you're generalising too much ;D

    #349704

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I think you're generalising too much ;D

    Nooooo…you think?  ;D ;D ;D

    #349705

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Hmmm…let's see…all the worst crimes in history were made by "religious" and "god loving" people. Crusades, witch hunting, Inquisition, both world wars, etc. One of the most religious countries in the world is USA…and then you have two nukes dropped on Japan, Korean war, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Somalia, Kosovo, Iraq, Libya, Syria…Iran next? Where's morality and ethics there? How about 9/11? And all the mass murders and crimes in USA? USA has about 320 million people and about 8 million in prison! China has 1.5 billion and only 2 million in prison! Says much? It doesn't matter if a person is religious or atheist…if you are bad person, you are a bad person! It's as simple as that! People are not born bad or murderers…they become one due time spent in corrupt societies, bad parents and lousy friends. No society norms, morals or ethics can stop a kid on a murder rampage in school…but if afterwards he goes to church on a confession, says 10 "hail mary's", he's "forgiven" and he goes to "heaven"? rofl!
    My opinion is that religious people are under pressure and scared all their lives…atheists are free and they know that only they are responsible for their actions. Atheists can't say "the devil made me do it" when they screw up, so, they tend to be more self-aware and responsible…. and yes, I'm an hard-core atheist…
    JM2C

    All crimes of religious peoples could not match death squad of Hitler, Musolini, Stalin, Lenin and Mao Zedung,  so with all due respect stop trolling. Atheists accomplished much better results in much shorter time.

    PS
    I know this is generalisation as well, but coin have two sides. ;)

    #349706

    Anonymous

    generalization or not, the point is that religious or not, morality and ethics are created within a society. the reason for morality of any person should be internal drive and society norms. i've heard quite often the statement that religious people are "morally superior" to atheists…which is total bs! as for the "stop trolling" part…i'm stopping…permanently.

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