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  • #345860

    Anonymous

    My comment as a start: "If Macedonia remains as non NATO nation, does it mean that we are not protected? I wonder from who!? We were not NATO nation for the last 20 years, what will make difference if we remain out of NATO for the next 20 years?"

    http://www.kanal5.com.mk/vesti_detail.asp?ID=19532

    Расмусен: Без решение за името нема влез во НАТО

    Без решение на името нема влез за Македонија во НАТО – одлуката и поканата од Букурешт остануваат во сила – ова е пораката која од Атина ја упати генералниот секретар на НАТО.

    [img width=700 height=525]http://www.kanal5.com.mk/uploads/sanja-5-.JPG”/>

    #422202

    Anonymous

    I don't think European nations need to be part of NATO. Wars aren't common in that part of the world.

    #422203

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I don't think European nations need to be part of NATO. Wars aren't common in that part of the world.

    Wars on the balkan peninsula are unfortunately very common. (remember 2001)
    They are probably thinking of the approaching Great Shiptarstan Fatherland war. Now is NATO the solution? Hopefully not.

    #422204

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Wars on the balkan peninsula are unfortunately very common. (remember 2001)
    They are probably thinking of the approaching Great Shiptarstan Fatherland war. Now is NATO the solution? Hopefully not.

    NATO supported Albanian separatism in Serbia. What makes you think they will support Macedonia against Albanian separatism in Macedonia?

    #422205

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Wars on the balkan peninsula are unfortunately very common. (remember 2001)
    They are probably thinking of the approaching Great Shiptarstan Fatherland war. Now is NATO the solution? Hopefully not.
    Quote:
    NATO supported Albanian separatism in Serbia. What makes you think they will support Macedonia against Albanian separatism in Macedonia?

    Guys, Albania is a member of NATO. Any conflict with Albania would mean a conflict with NATO.

    Macedonia was supposed to become a NATO member in 2009 together with Croatia and Albania. The only obstacle was the name issue. From then on, on every NATO summit a message is sent that Macedonia will immediately join the alliance once that problem is solved.

    So, if it wasn't the problem with Greece, we would have already been a part of NATO. Euro-skeptics can thank Greece for not being a NATO member yet. :)

    However, Macedonian troops participate in NATO missions for years already. There are our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan. I still don't know what are we trying to prove with it. Officials probably think that eventually an invitation from NATO will come despite Greek opposition. That's the only explanation why the investments in our army are minimal. The military budget is getting lower every year. Not to mention that the Minister of Defense is an Albanian! Either that, or they are simply idiots.

    #422206

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    NATO supported Albanian separatism in Serbia. What makes you think they will support Macedonia against Albanian separatism in Macedonia?

    I said it's hopefully not the solution. (Besides Albania joined NATO in 2009 already) In 2001, they received military support from several other european countries. What i'm wondering is that, is Macedonia capable of dealing with it alone or not. And how well armed are the shiptars, who is funding them, etc. I'm not very familiar with the conflict, so just my 2 cents.

    #422207

    Anonymous

    I wasn't referring to the country Albania but rather Albanians in Macedonia who NATO have no legal responsibility for.

    #422208

    Anonymous

    For Macedonia and Serbia, the CSTO is the only solution. Serbia has recently been granted observer status to this organisation. Macedonia should follow suit.

    #422209

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    For Macedonia and Serbia, the CSTO is the only solution. Serbia has recently been granted observer status to this organisation. Macedonia should follow suit.

    I don't see a reason why Macedonia should join CSTO, neither NATO. What is wrong if we remain as we are? I believe that the times for military alliances are gone,

    "The Soviet troops that came to the center of this continent did not leave when peace came. They're still there, uninvited, unwanted, unyielding, almost forty years after the war. Because of this, allied forces still stand on this continent. "

    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ronaldreaganddayaddress.html

    My question: The Soviet union dissipated 22 years ago, so what keeps the allied forces on this continent? 

    Stabbing the Empire: Last Day of Soviet Union

    #422210

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I don't see a reason why Macedonia should join CSTO, neither NATO. What is wrong if we remain as we are? I believe that the times for military alliances are gone,

    "The Soviet troops that came to the center of this continent did not leave when peace came. They're still there, uninvited, unwanted, unyielding, almost forty years after the war. Because of this, allied forces still stand on this continent. "

    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/ronaldreaganddayaddress.html

    My question: The Soviet union dissipated 22 years ago, so what keeps the allied forces on this continent? 

    Stabbing the Empire: Last Day of Soviet Union

    Why we have a large separatist hostile minority that has it's motherland as a NATO member. War with Albania is war with NATO. If we are a CSTO member, it would be CSTO vs NATO.

    #422211

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Why we have a large separatist hostile minority that has it's motherland as a NATO member. War with Albania is war with NATO. If we are a CSTO member, it would be CSTO vs NATO.

    I don't think that Russia who was responsible for partition of Macedonia will stand by our side and start WW3 even if we are a member of CSTO.

    That is the conclusion if the Romans were right by saying "Historia is magistra vitae"

    #422212

    Anonymous

    Makedonec

    ….in connection to the above: Stalin made an agreement with the west to leave Greece in their zone of interest. Tito continued to support the Greek Liberation Army in which the Macedonians were numerous. Stalin ordered Tito to cease the support and to allow the advancement of the British. Tito opposed, Stalin wasn't used to such behavior and threatened with military invasion. So being in a sandwich, Tito reluctantly decided to cease the support and let the British air crafts kill the Macedonian refugees while they we trying to cross the border and find sanctuary on the Yugoslav side. The west sided by Tito and if Stalin invaded Yugoslavia it would most likely be the beginning of WW3.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Greek_Civil_War

    Political refugees of the Greek Civil War were members or sympathisers of the defeated communist forces who fled Greece during or in the aftermath of the Civil War of 1946–1949. The collapse of the Democratic Army of Greece (DSE) and the evacuation of the Communist Party of Greece (KKE) to Tashkent in 1949 led thousands of people to leave the country. It has been estimated that by 1949 over 100,000 people had left Greece, including tens of thousands of child refugees who had been evacuated by the KKE in an organised campaign.[1][2] The war wrought widespread devastation right across Greece and particularly in the regions of Macedonia and Epirus, causing many people to continue to leave the country even after it had ended.

    Exodus 1948 – Macedonian Refugee Children from the Aegean Macedonia – Victims of the Greek Civil War (1946-1949)

    #422213

    Anonymous

    Harald Kotschy: NATO is not an advantage for Macedonia

    http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/25349/45/

    Harald Kotschy: NATO is not an advantage for Macedonia
    Thursday, 22 May 2014

    For people in faraway countries, it might be difficult to understand the situation in the Balkans, because nobody learns history, and history is very important because without it you cannot understand the aftermath, says Harald Kotschy, former Austrian Ambassador to Macedonia.

    As a panelist at the "European Identity and the Future of the Balkans" Conference held Monday in Skopje, organized by the French and Austrian Embassies and several other international organizations, Mr. Kotschy spoke about the historic relations between Greece and Macedonia.

    One of his main points was the Greek irredentist program regarding the re-establishment of the Byzantine Empire by annexing regions belonging to the Ottoman Empire and the implications those relations have nowadays.

    In a 2010 interview for the Voice of the People you said Greece was violating international law in terms of its position towards Macedonia and you referred to its foreign policy as “blackmail”. Do you think that is the main reason why Macedonia has not made a progress towards its EU integration?

    – Greece is, in my view, only the "frontrunner" for several reasons and interests within the European Union why Macedonia is kept blocked. It was a big mistake to accept Greece at the very beginning, but then Bulgaria and Romania joined, countries with such a different standard of economy, that people realize it just now. Of course, Macedonia is a small country, but I think there is a certain agreement that if the economic situation differs by more than 30%, between a member and a candidate country, it doesn’t work in anybody’s favor. It’s a big drain from the acceding country, since you not only accept a member, but you have to accept foreign goods and different quality of foreign goods. You have to act according to Brussels’ directives and then you have an even bigger brain drain because of the free movement. Look what happened to Croatia, where many people left the country after entering the EU. Many countries see these mistakes and don’t want to repeat them. Of course, the US is also supporting Greece. So, there are different interests involved.

    In that interview, you said NATO is losing its place in recent years and that the Alliance has turned into a US tool to serve for its power interests. Do you think Macedonia should further insist on being accepted to NATO?

    – I never believed that would be an advantage for Macedonia, because you have to do many things. First, you have to increase the army troops, and, as I was told, you have achieved a very high standard. But what for? You participate in NATO partnership missions but why do you need a NATO-standard army for such a small country? We [Austria] are very happy now that we are not a NATO member.

    Do you think there would be negative consequences for Macedonia if it joins NATO?

    – Yes, money-wise negative, yes. Yet, it’s not a disadvantage, however, equipping the army according to NATO standards costs a lot of money.

    What could Macedonia expect at the upcoming NATO Summit in September?

    – I could believe that NATO would be interested in some more members to look stronger, to have more resources, including human resources, in a sort of an "image game". It’s always good for an organization to enlarge and, given recent events in Ukraine, it could speed up Macedonia’s accession. NATO wants to show strength that nearly all of Europe is behind it now. It had an important role during the Cold War, no doubt about that, but now, personally, I don’t see anything that NATO could bring to you. It’s not NATO’s job to be a referee in internal quarrels. NATO is an alliance against aggression from abroad. It doesn’t care what is happening inside.

    Do you think Macedonia will lose its sovereignty if it joins the EU?

    – Certainly. There is no sovereignty in the European Union. We all receive orders; even the parliaments get orders from Brussels to pass laws in a package. Many leading politicians now in the election campaign realized how much there is negative opinion on the EU. Around 30% are really in favor of the Union. Because it has become so autocratic, it reminds of a soviet imperium. History has changed. This administration wants to decide everything, how much toilet water you use, what pipes you should use, and, of course, this involves businesses of big companies, too. It has, indeed, many advantages and in principle the Union is a very positive thing, but the way it is handled now raises very much criticism.

    Do you think Brussels could change its policies in the near future?

    – Yes, if it leaves behind the decisions that are really not important. Why does it care how many Norwegians or Greeks use water. This is nothing. Yet, it has not implemented and solved energy programs. The Union doesn’t care of important problems. It is fighting on a completely wrong front side. I think most of those 30% who are against the European Union are against these types of problems and not against the European unification process. To travel without a passport is very important, but on the other hand, ask people in eastern Austria how much crime has increased. These travelers come from Romania, Bulgaria, Slovakia and people are not very happy about free traveling in the Union and it is difficult for locals as they feel the negative consequences.

    At the Conference in Skopje you reminded that the 1913 Macedonian issue is still pending. Do you think Macedonia is still dealing with the negative image of itself in wider international context?

    – For people in faraway countries, it might be difficult to understand the situation in the Balkans, because nobody learns history, and history is very important because without it you cannot understand the aftermath. There is always something happening in the Balkans. In Austria, we still talk, for instance, about the South Tirol region. And we always repeat two things: first that the Italians betrayed us and then, South Tirol has been stolen from us. And this persists in the minds of the people for a long time. The negative image about the Balkans, including Macedonia, is that so many more things have happened here, than losing the South Tirol and people don't understand what happened here and what your history was like.

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