• This topic has 5 voices and 12 replies.
Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #346327

    Anonymous

    Ok, here's a good subject for everyone interested in slavic linguistics.

    What is the etymology of the proto-slavic word for "human" čelověkŭ/čĭlověkŭ:

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C4%8Dlov%C4%9Bk

    In other words what smaller PIE morphemes have the proto-slavs used in order to create their word for "human"?

    I will provide some examples of the procedure from other IE languages:

    The english word "man" comes from PIE *man(u) = "human/ancestor of mankind":
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/man#Etymology

    The root *manu can be found in Indic manush and proto-slavic *mǫžь:

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Slavic/m%C7%AB%C5%BE%D1%8C#Proto-Slavic
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%AE%E0%A4%A8%E0%A5%81%E0%A4%B7%E0%A5%8D%E0%A4%AF#Sanskrit
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIE_mythology#Brothers

    The latin word "homo" comes from *dhg'hom-"earth" thus making the human "made of earth"/"earthling":

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/homo#Latin

    Lithuanian žmuo also means "earthling", meanwhile žmogus means "earth-walker":

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%BEmuo#Lithuanian
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C5%BEmogus#Lithuanian

    Finally, Greek ἄνθρωπος (ànthrōpos) is a corruption (involving laryngeal aspiration of an epenthetic d) of IE *h2nr.-h3kw-os > h2ndr.-h3kw-os > h2ndhrōpos > ànthropos
    meaning "with viril aspect", hence it originally denoted only the adult male.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E1%BC%84%CE%BD%CE%B8%CF%81%CF%89%CF%80%CE%BF%CF%82

    A more recent proposal derives it from IE *n.dhr.h3kw- the first root being *n.dher- "down" which gave latin infra/inferior and english under.

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/infra#Latin

    Hence a meaning that orbits around "down>earth" has been proposed.

    Now, what do you think about proto-slavic  čelověkŭ/čĭlověkŭ?

    #427628

    Anonymous

    Čelovek, Chelovek, Человек, Človek, Člověk and other forms in various Slavic languages…

    Every Slav sees two words: ČELO (forehead) and VEK (age)

    Čelo – forehead is an entrance into the brain, a centre of human thinking. I think this is pretty much clear.

    Vek – age might describe a period of human life (in general). On the other hand I read that in the past Vek was rather closer to words as strength, power, energy. So in that meaning čelovek is a live human being. Pretty logical.  :)

    #427629

    Anonymous

    Not sure, but for Latvian Cilveks
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cilv%C4%93ks#Latvian
    they are strict it is borrowing from Old East Slavic, possible some Finno-Ungric borrowing.
    Interesting is that Baltic languages same as Slavic has different word for plural, without any root from singulair: srb/cro sing. ČOVEK, pl. LJUDI ; latv. pl. ļaudis which is derived from PIE *leidʰi (descendant, offspring)

    If čovek is not some east borrowing, than it would be possible it was derived from ČELO (forehead)
    with meaning "first among others, leader of tribe" from PIE *kelh2os (again good example of Slavic palatalization).
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C4%8Delo
    See derived term: (not only Cze. but all other Slavic)
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/n%C3%A1%C4%8Deln%C3%ADk

    #427630

    Anonymous

    There're many explanations. А common but not necessarily accurate is

    chelo/chalo — forehead, vek/vik — time period.

    #427631

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Čelo – forehead is an entrance into the brain, a centre of human thinking. I think this is pretty much clear.

    2000 years ago the ancient Greeks thought that the center of thinking was the heart … hehehe.

    "Phren" from where we have today both oligophrenia and schizophrenia anatomically meant "mediastinum":

    http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aentry%3Dfrh%2Fn

    —-

    Anyway, back to čelověkŭ/čĭlověkŭ, I will simply remind you the law of open syllables in Slavic, if this helps you come up with more ideas.

    In proto-slavic the consonants that turned a syllable "closed" (that is ending in a consonant) were lost so that all syllables became "open" (ending in vowel).

    Example:

    PIE *supnos/swopnos = "sleep" (Grk. hypnos, Lat. somnus)

    since the syllabization is *sup-nos proto-slavic lost the /p/ and the term became *sŭnŭ:

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/swep-#Proto-Indo-European

    This means that, for example, you could have an extra consonant (let's call it "X") as in:

    čelověXkŭ/čĭlověXkŭ

    #427632

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Not sure, but for Latvian Cilveks
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cilv%C4%93ks#Latvian
    they are strict it is borrowing from Old East Slavic, possible some Finno-Ungric borrowing.
    Interesting is that Baltic languages same as Slavic has different word for plural, without any root from singulair: srb/cro sing. ČOVEK, pl. LJUDI ; latv. pl. ļaudis which is derived from PIE *leidʰi (descendant, offspring)

    If čovek is not some east borrowing, than it would be possible it was derived from ČELO (forehead)
    with meaning "first among others, leader of tribe" from PIE *kelh2os (again good example of Slavic palatalization).
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%C4%8Delo
    See derived term: (not only Cze. but all other Slavic)
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/n%C3%A1%C4%8Deln%C3%ADk

    Well čelnik is certainly panslavic … it has even entered in medieval Greek "tselingas" = "chief of a pastoral tribe" (Vlach or Sarakatsan)

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CF%84%CF%83%CE%AD%CE%BB%CE%B9%CE%B3%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%82

    čelnik > čelink-> čeling-as

    #427633

    Anonymous

    I am just going to test my theory about lost consonant:

    *čelo-ved-kŭ > čelo-věd-kŭ > čelo-vě-kŭ "animal with a forehead".

    Second part is *h2wed- "animal, living creature" that survives in slovenian vedevec = "werewolf":

    image

    The /d/ (or any other plain voiced stop b,d,g) could explain the yat (e>ě) of the word as a result of Winter's law:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter's_law

    #427634

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    2000 years ago the ancient Greeks thought that the center of thinking was the heart … hehehe.
    ….

    OK, i tried backwards, opened Starostin databases, and asked for PIE root starting with *KE, (*K gave in early OCS "Č", while in PS was still "K")

    Proto-IE: *k'ara-, *k'eras-, *k'rās-
    Meaning: head
    Hittite: harsar n. (r/n) 'Kopf', Luw., h.l. harmahi- id. (Tischler 184ff with doubts); kit-kar 'zu Häupten' (596-597)
    Tokharian: B krāñi 'nape of the neck' (Adams 214)
    Old Indian: śíraḥ n. (nom., acc. ) `head, skull', gen. śīrṣṇáḥ, abl. śīrṣatáḥ; śīrṣá- n. `head, upper part'
    Avestan: sarah- n. 'Kopf'
    Armenian: sar `Höhe, Gipfel, Abhang'
    Old Greek: kárǟ n. `Kopf', ep. gen. karǟ́atos, dat. -ati, pl. -ara; gen. krǟ́atos/krǟ̂tos, dat. -ati, pl. -ata (old -s-stem); hom. epì kár `auf dem Kopf'; éŋkăro-s 'the brain'; íŋkro-s m. = eŋképhalos Hdn.Gr., Hsch.; aná-kar 'up to or towards the head' (Hp. ap. Hal.); kárǟno-n, pl. -a, äol. karanno-n n. `Haupt, Kopf, Bergsgipfel'; krǟnío-n n. `Schädel, Hirnschale; Kopf', -krǟno-n `Kopf' (epí-, potí- , olé-, kio(nó)etc.), krǟno-kopéō `den Kopf abhauen'
    Germanic: *xir-z-n-iá- n., *xir-z-n-án- m., *xír-s-an- m.
    Latin: cerebrum, -ī `Gehirn', cervīx, -īcis f. `Nacken, Genick'
    Celtic: Bret kern `Scheitel, Wirbel des Kopfes'
    Russ. meaning: голова
    References: WP I 403 f
    Comments: Cf. *k'era(w)-, *k'rū- #487 'horn'

    You shold notice that almost same PIE root gave "center of thinking" and in Russian meaning also: center, middle:

    Proto-IE: *k'erd-
    Nostratic etymology: Nostratic etymology
    Meaning: heart; core, middle
    Hittite: ker / kard- n. 'Herz', Pal. karti, Lyk. B kride-si, A kerɵɵi (Tischler 556 ff)
    Old Indian: hr̥d n., gen. hr̥dáḥ `heart'
    Avestan: zǝrǝdā 'Herz'
    Armenian: sirt, instr. srtiv `Herz'
    Old Greek: kardíǟ, ep. kradíā f. `Herz; Seele, Geist; der obere Magenmund; Kernholz'+ ep. kǟ̂r, Pind., B., Trag. kéar, dat. kǟ̂ri, adv. kǟróthi n. `Herz'
    Slavic: *sьrdьce; *serdъ, *serdā
    Baltic: *čer̂d-i- c., *čerd-iā̃ (2) f., *čir̂d-i- (*čir̂d-) (2) c., *čir̂d-a- c., *čir̃d- vb. intr.
    Germanic: *xirt-an- n., *xirt-ōn- f.
    Latin: cor, gen. cordis n. `Herz'
    Celtic: OIr cride n., Ir croidue `Herz'; Cymr craidd `Herz, Mittelpunkt',Bret kreiz `Mitte'
    Russ. meaning: сердце; сердцевина, середина

    #427635

    Anonymous

    While with plural form LJUDI thing are more obvious, only confusing thing is that here Slavic form has it singular, word nowhere standardized, but often mistake of children learning to speak: "LJUD"

    Proto-IE: *(e)lewǝdh-
    Meaning: man, people
    Old Greek: eléu̯thero- `frei', eléu̯thero-s m. `freier Mann'
    Slavic: [size=12pt]*ljū̀dъ[/size]; pl. *ljū̀dī

    Baltic: *leud-i- m., *leûd-jā̂ f., *lū̆d-– (Lith AC / Lett CIRC)

    Proto-Baltic: *leud-i- m., *leûd-jā̂ f., *lū̆d-– (Lith AC / Lett CIRC)
    Meaning: people
    Indo-European etymology: Indo-European etymology
    Lithuanian: liaúdis `niederes, gewöhnliches Volk', dial. liaudžià `alle Leute, die im Hause sind, sowohl die Angehörigen wie die Mietlinge', žem. (Varniai) liaudē `familia'
    Lettish: l̨àudis, dial. l̨àuži pl.`Leute, Menschen', ? l̨àudava, l̨aũdava, l̨aũduva `Braut, junge Frau; Schwiegertochter'
    Old Prussian: ludis `Wirt' V. 185, ludini `Wirtin' V. 186, ludysz `Mensch' Grunau 40

    Seems that singular "Čelovek" was leader, and plural "ljudi" were free people,  elefteris, members of clan.
    Still looking in sino-caucasian databases.

    #427636

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I am just going to test my theory about lost consonant:

    *čelo-ved-kŭ > čelo-věd-kŭ > čelo-vě-kŭ "animal with a forehead".

    Second part is *h2wed- "animal, living creature" …

    But *h2/3 should give in slavic "Z" or "Ž" like greek zoon, or slavic ZVER (wild animal) ŽIVOTINJA (any animal) ŽIVOT (life)
    again that PS -> OCS first and second palatalization: K, G, H to C, Z, S or to Č, Ž, Š

    #427637

    Anonymous

    More I search, more I think that "čelovek" is some kind of adjective (not noun) suppletion of plural "ljudi".
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppletion
    I even find that hungarian (they borrowed a lot from Slavic) word for person has something with thrac. zemeli phrig. zemelo, slavic zemlja (earth, ground) all from PIE  *g'hom-en-, *g'hmō-
    http://translate.google.com/#en/hu/person

    #427638

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    But *h2/3 should give in slavic "Z" or "Ž" like greek zoon, or slavic ZVER (wild animal) ŽIVOTINJA (any animal) ŽIVOT (life)
    again that PS -> OCS first and second palatalization: K, G, H to C, Z, S or to Č, Ž, Š

    Well zver and život are different roots: zver is cognate with greek θήρ and latin ferus/ferox, meanwhile život is cognate with greek βίος (biology) and ζώον (zoo, zoology) and with latin vivus,vita:

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/%C7%B5%CA%B0wer-#Proto-Indo-European
    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Proto-Indo-European/g%CA%B7eih%E2%82%83w-#Proto-Indo-European

    #427639

    Anonymous

    One theory of mine could be that it comes from the word for bare, naked, bald – without hair. Humans saw themselves as different from animals because of having no fur.

    Proto Indo-European for bald, bare:  klH-owo

    Serbian: bald:ćelav
    Latin: bald: calva

Viewing 13 posts - 1 through 13 (of 13 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.