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  • #387044

    Anonymous

    This is getting nowhere and is already ridiculous.

    #387045

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Sorry to interrupt: christians came, tried to destroy everything native, did not succeed, saw in the end that some s.hit was good and decided to revive what they wanted to destroy in the begining of it all.
    Is that what you're trying to say?  ;D Crazy.

    Romans used christianity in a desperate attempt to unify an empire which was already doomed. That is the truth.

    Oh, so you mean I should do anything else (pump iron and peacework the middle east), except what my nature dictates, because Europe is occupied by christians and they do not allow me to do that which I feel like doing, IN MY OWN HOMELAND? Get lost, dude.

    Which Christians? Christianity was then the prime standard of conduct in the civilised world which our ancestors inhabited. We may like it or not, but it was more sophisticated than anything else we by then experienced.

    Now I will draw a parallel, you will surely like:

    Roman Empire saw the antiquated thinking the common folk possessed (paganism), as obsolete and backward, because it brought no progress, and no unity necessary to achieve one European Empire, one European Nation, one European Homeland (in their case Roman). It was irrelevant which person, where came with the idea of that new philosophical thought that there is only one God which is benevolent, such as it is today irrelevant where the rational school of thought emerged (it might have come from Eskimo land, who the hell cares). What was relevant, that the most citizens of the European Empire were supporters of that new philosophy (just as today the most are supporters of the rational philoshopy), and that it is wise to shift from an obsolete school of thought to a new one, more unifying and progressive. Hence the new immigrants e.g. Slavs were still antiquated and foreign in their ideology, nationalist, conservative and backward one could say today, and making them citizens of the European Empire needed them to embrace the common European tradition and culture that ruled, and not some by their standards, non-compatible non-European pagan crap from the steppe. Whether we liked it or not. Why did we do it?


      [li]Because of the same reason why some of our European Imperialist members say, because it was antiquated and we had to move one. One European Empire, one European Homeland, one European Nation.[/li]
    #387046

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Should not be in christianity though. Why is it?  ;)

    New Testament Christianity teaches all about peace, love and sunshine. It's about people who follow it :)

    #387047

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Which Christians? Christianity was then the prime standard of conduct in the civilised world which our ancestors inhabited. We may like it or not, but it was more sophisticated than anything else we by then experienced.

    Now I will draw a parallel, you will surely like:

    Roman Empire saw the antiquated thinking the common folk possessed (paganism), as obsolete and backward, because it brought no progress, and no unity necessary to achieve one European Empire, one European Nation, one European Homeland (in their case Roman). It was irrelevant which person, where came with the idea of that new philosophical thought that there is only one God which is benevolent, such as it is today irrelevant where the rational school of thought emerged (it might have come from Eskimo land, who the hell cares). What was relevant, that the most citizens of the European Empire were supporters of that new philosophy (just as today the most are supporters of the rational philoshopy), and that it is wise to shift from an obsolete school of thought to a new one, more unifying and progressive. Hence the new immigrants e.g. Slavs were still antiquated and foreign in their ideology, nationalist, conservative and backward one could say today, and making them citizens of the European Empire needed them to embrace the common European tradition and culture that ruled, and not some by their standards, non-compatible non-European pagan crap from the steppe. Whether we liked it or not. Why did we do it?


      [li]Because of the same reason why some of our European Imperialist members say, because it was antiquated and we had to move one. One European Empire, one European Homeland, one European Nation.[/li]

    Let's say you're right. Does it take much longer for christianity to unite Europe? I don't see the slightest indication of it. Do you?

    Oh, right: a progressive and benevolent ideology destroys everything in its path. And I don't mean ONLY Europe. Ask the Inkas.  ;D

    #387048

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Dark Ages was a historical period between 5th and 15th century during which economic, cultural and scientific deterioration occurred.

    Economical life was improved during Middle ages, from that period we have banks, loans, trade corporations etc. Cultural life was improved also, rate of literacy was better, modern educational system started its development then. Also agriculture was improved (crop roataion). In medicine we could see large practical improvment. Not to mention tiny fact that world passed from slavery to feudal system, another major improvment.
    We could see detoriation in Renessaince compared to Middle ages. In Middle ages people were bathing themselves regulary. Renassaince men did not bath themselves. Japanese, Chinese Moors were disgusted by that bad habit of enlighted Europeans.

    Quote:
    Christianity became the dominant religion in many regions of Europe from 4-5th centuries throwing Europe into “Dark Ages”. Dark Ages was a historical period between 5th and 15th century during which economic, cultural and scientific deterioration occurred. 
    There is little doubt in my mind that Christianity slowed down Europeans for at least 1000 years.

    Dark ages is early period of Middle ages, period of time about which lack historical sources.

    Quote:
    There were no breaking discoveries in astronomy, physics, and biology. Chemistry existed in the form of alchemy. I can only think of mathematician Leonardo Fibonacci who lived in the 12 th century. He introduced Arabic numerical system in Europe. Probably others introduced it before Fibonacci, he received the recognition  he probably did not deserve, but that’s another story.
    Aristotle, Archimedes, Hippocrates, Herodotus, Euclid and other famous greeks all lived in pre-Christian times. .

    I am not deneing existance of Ancient Greek culture before Christianity, thing is there was no European identity and culture before Christianity.
    Concerning, discoveries check history a bit.

    Quote:
    Was Zeus (and others like him), not able to control his fornication problem, a good or a bad god?  ;D

    He is doing good and bad things. However why Heracles become demigod? Because all good deads he done.
    Is this leading somewhere. There is 5 pages of erronous statments in this thread. You are arguing aginst Christianity, without knowing it, you are discussing Ancient Gree religion without knowing it.

    #387049

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    He is doing good and bad things. However why Heracles become demigod? Because all good deads he done.
    Is this leading somewhere. There is 5 pages of erronous statments in this thread. You are arguing aginst Christianity, without knowing it, you are discussing Ancient Gree religion without knowing it.

    Let's say you're right too: did you teach me anything? Did you prove me wrong? No. You want me think what you tell me to. Typically christian.

    You judge everything through your christian "glasses", my friend, which is not the impartial way to do it.

    #387050

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    FFS everything is based on nature, and please read the text I wrote on this topic.

    FFS a religion that disregards human nature is NOT based on nature. A marxist society which disregards eugenics and imposes equality on everyone is NOT based on nature FFS!

    I've read what you've written, and as implied in my former posts I think your "theory" is flawed.

    If there is no devil and no hell after I die, something I should be afraid of, like eternal damnation (pagans didn't have that), there is nothing that is preventing me to kill their men, take their horses and rape their women

    As stated, this is a fallacious argument. Christianity is not prevalent in the all four corners of the world (nor is "eternal damnation") and yet there are hardly rapes and murder everywhere.

    #387051

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    New Testament Christianity teaches all about peace, love and sunshine. It's about people who follow it :)

    So it is in opposition with the gory Old Testament, right? Why do christians need the Old Testament anyway?

    But I hope they do know that reality is not "all about peace, love and sunshine". Of course they know, otherwise they wouldn't be such good politicians.  ;)

    #387052

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Let's say you're right too: did you teach me anything? Did you prove me wrong? No. You want me think what you tell me to. Typically christian.

    You judge everything through your christian "glasses", my friend, which is not the impartial way to do it.

    We all judge through our glasses. Dalibor is a theologist, you are an imperialist. The means of rational discussion is the only way we can exchange ideas. Sermons and lectures are however pointless, since we all know what we already know.

    [img width=538 height=700]http://www.schmahl.net/RationalDiscussion.jpg” />

    #387053

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Are you people kidding with me, or are you really comparing 9th century context with 21th or even 19th century contexts, and that not even on the European continent or sphere of influence.

    #387054

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Let's say you're right too: did you teach me anything? Did you prove me wrong? No. You want me think what you tell me to. Typically christian.

    Let's say this way: I want to tell yo that you dont have clue about things we were discussing last few hours, and you proved it few dozen times. Spanish inquisition existed all of Europe? Ancient Romans and Greeks had modern concept of Europe? Europe (even secular) was built on Christian values (Liberte, Egalite Fraternite?)
    Dont want to be rude but you are even lacking knowlege about that you consider your own religion, not to mention mine. Your personal text is: "Староверац". That is name for offshoot of ROC, there is no connection with neo-paganism.
    Take off your own glasses before discussing mine.

    #387055

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    We all judge through our glasses. Dalibor is a theologist, you are an imperialist. The means of rational discussion is the only way we can exchange ideas. Sermons and lectures are however pointless, since we all know what we already know

    True, but the likes of me lived and live under the christian despotism, as can be plainly seen, which spread itself throughout the european society.

    You cannot say I wasn't objective. Rationalism is for another topic, for life is all but rational. Should we save that for another occasion?

    #387056

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    True, but the likes of me lived and live under the christian despotism, as can be plainly seen, which spread itself throughout the european society.

    You cannot say I wasn't objective. Rationalism is for another topic, for life is all but rational. Should we save that for another occasion?

    We can conclude it as far as I am concerned. The point wanting to state is that eventhough paganism has become a large European national identity carrier since the WW2, Christianity is one as well. For the common European, from my perspective though, both should be cherrished as what they are, our tradition. And as you know attacking ones tradition, means attacking ones identity, be it pagan or Christian.

    The young common European surely doesn't believe that a bearded man is producing thunder, as much as I personally believe, they perceive a je[size=1pt]'[/size]wish carpenter to be a son of God (or God himself), nonetheless both of these aspects are our tradition, and our heritage, thus should be respected and honored. Not spit upon.

    #387057

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    True, but the likes of me lived and live under the christian despotism, as can be plainly seen, which spread itself throughout the european society.

    About what you are talking? In last 50 or so years Europe is completely uninterested in any kind religion except some shalow spirtualism and funny syncretical hobby religions. On other hand state where you grown-uo was under ant-Christian communist despotism. And unconsiously you are repeating Communist laughable criticism of Christianity.

    #387058

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Let's say this way: I want to tell yo that you dont have clue about things we were discussing last few hours, and you proved it few dozen times. Spanish inquisition existed all of Europe? Ancient Romans and Greeks had modern concept of Europe? Europe (even secular) was built on Christian values (Liberte, Egalite Fraternite?)
    Dont want to be rude but you are even lacking knowlege about that you consider your own religion, not to mention mine. Your personal text is: "Староверац". That is name for offshoot of ROC, there is no connection with neo-paganism.
    Take off your own glasses before discussing mine.

    No clue on things like what? Your religion? You have no clue on how much I read about that, but you draw conclusions. I don't mind.

    No, the whole Catholic churche's institution of Inquisition (Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis), which started in France in the 12th century and spread over many european countries. How about you read a bit more about what you talk here? Would be nice.

    Yes. As hystory shows the ancient greeks and romans had more modern views on everything, than christians had. Educate yourself more, because information is at hand.

    Everything you mentioned above (Liberté, égalité, fraternité) are things I despise most. Was I clear enough? You have no idea of what "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" means. You want your opinion to be law: no freedom. You think you're better than me: no equality. And that shows that also no fraternity exists between you and me.

    QED, my friend.

    How I call myself and my beliefs and what I understand under that term is my concern only.

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