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  • #387059

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    We can conclude it as far as I am concerned. The point wanting to state is that eventhough paganism has become a large European national identity carrier since the WW2, Christianity is one as well. For the common European, from my perspective though, both should be cherrished as what they are, our tradition. And as you know attacking ones tradition, means attacking ones identity, be it pagan or Christian.

    The young common European surely doesn't believe that a bearded man is producing thunder, as much as I personally believe, they perceive a je[size=1pt]'[/size]wish carpenter to be a son of God (or God himself), nonetheless both of these aspects are our tradition, and our heritage, thus should be respected and honored. Not spit upon.

    Absolutely right. But don't you agree than paganism is way underrepresented nowadays (not to mention the centuries before, where it was forbidden)? Christianity had its share of "air time", so can we please have ours, or must we take it by force, if neccessary?
    That is the problem here.

    #387060

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Are you people kidding with me, or are you really comparing 9th century context with 21th or even 19th century contexts, and that not even on the European continent or sphere of influence.

    This has nothing to do with the European continent. Yours was a remark on Christianity, about how it saved everyone from being "rapist and murderer". I stated that not every Non – Christian society in the past was ridden with rapists and murderers. If we take your sentence out of the whole European context, we can detect the fallacy.

    Let us stop pretending for a moment that Christianity took people out of the caves and gave them culture and civilization, as it is not the case.

    #387061

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    About what you are talking? In last 50 or so years Europe is completely uninterested in any kind religion except some shalow spirtualism and funny syncretical hobby religions. On other hand state where you grown-uo was under ant-Christian communist despotism. And unconsiously you are repeating Communist laughable criticism of Christianity.

    Not the last "50 or so years", my friend, but the thousand plus years before. That is unexcusable, no matter how you turn it around.

    "Shalow", "funny"… do not generalize your viewpoint, for it is not polite, civilized and tolerant.  ;)

    Where I grew up is clear. How I grew up, you do not know, so stop it before I become unpleasant. I never said anything about your background, so I politely invite you to do the same. Concentrate only on me and my writing here. OK?

    I repeat nothing and communism is not the only ideology that found christianity "laughable". Nor do one need an ideology to find it laughable (example: atheists).

    So, come on and teach me something I don't know and I'll be the first to thank you for the effort.

    #387062

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Absolutely right. But don't you agree than the paganism is way underrepresented nowadays (not to mention the centuries before, where it was forbidden)? Christianity had its share of "air time", so can we please have ours, or must we take it by force, if neccessary?
    That is the problem here.

    Well I would like to see a preservation of our tradition, and it is true that the СПЦ did not always help in the matter of our inherent Serb practices (however also much were retained like Slava e.g.), however today we live in a secular society and should contribute more. Like I said in a different thread the worse thing it can happen that we start forming a grey rootless mass in the new globalist world we are living in. The deeper the roots, the higher the tree.

    The problem I see with the СПЦ, is namely what I believe is wanting to make the Serbs a tabula rasa before them, and that is something that is impossible to achieve, since it just isn't true. I would like to see them step over that shadow, they are a Serbian Church, not a Greek or a Jerusalim one.

    #387063

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Everything you mentioned above (Liberté, égalité, fraternité) are things I despise most. Was I clear enough? You have no idea of what "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" means. You want your opinion to be law: no freedom. You think you're better than me: no equality. And that shows that also no fraternity exists between you and me.

    I dont think we are discussing your political wiews, but rather foundation of European idenitity. So please refrain from that. You are free to believe whatever you wish, and to express it, but here it is nothing more than bikering.

    Quote:
    No, the whole Catholic churche's institution of Inquisition (Inquisitio Haereticae Pravitatis), which started in France in the 12th century and spread over many european countries. How about you read a bit more about what you talk here? Would be nice.

    First thing. There was no all-Roman Church institution Inquisition. There was Spanish Inquistion (established 1478) and Roman Inquistion (established 1542).
    Medieval Inquisitions were series of temporary investigations and tribunals. It was established 1184, and it was not permanent, and it was mainly used against priests who were teaching unorthodox doctrines.
    Wichhunts happened after Reformation, mainly in Protestant states, and generally were unrelated to Roman-Catholic Church.

    #387064

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    This has nothing to do with the European continent.
    ….
    Let us stop pretending for a moment that Christianity took people out of the caves and gave them culture and civilization, as it is not the case.

    Christianity is Religion of Europe, it has all to do with Europe. It did not bring people out of caves, but Christians developed European identity, there is no simpler definition.

    #387065

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I dont think we are discussing your political wiews, but rather foundation of European idenitity. So please refrain from that. You are free to believe whatever you wish, and to express it, but here it is nothing more than bikering.

    You metioned those and I answered. Don't like my views? Ignore me and you're saved.

    #387066

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Economical life was improved during Middle ages, from that period we have banks, loans, trade corporations etc. Cultural life was improved also, rate of literacy was better, modern educational system started its development then. Also agriculture was improved (crop roataion). In medicine we could see large practical improvment. Not to mention tiny fact that world passed from slavery to feudal system, another major improvment.
    We could see detoriation in Renessaince compared to Middle ages. In Middle ages people were bathing themselves regulary. Renassaince men did not bath themselves. Japanese, Chinese Moors were disgusted by that bad habit of enlighted Europeans.Dark ages is early period of Middle ages, period of time about which lack historical sources. I am not deneing existance of Ancient Greek culture before Christianity, thing is there was no European identity and culture before Christianity.

    Dark Ages are called Dark for a good reason. Similarly the Renaissance period. I am not against Christianity. Whatever happened happened in our history and we have to accept it. 
    If you are biased and very subjective towards Christianity I don’t think I will want to continue this discussion. There are many topics we can discuss and agree upon on this forum.

    #387067

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    First thing. There was no all-Roman Church institution Inquisition. There was Spanish Inquistion (established 1478) and Roman Inquistion (established 1542).
    Medieval Inquisitions were series of temporary investigations and tribunals. It was established 1184, and it was not permanent, and it was mainly used against priests who were teaching unorthodox doctrines.
    Wichhunts happened after Reformation, mainly in Protestant states, and generally were unrelated to Roman-Catholic Church.

    Well, let's say you are right again (you do see how much I care, right?) and forget about the name of some institution and concentrate on the persecusion of everything non-christian from day one. Shall we? Guess you don't really want that.

    #387068

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    This has nothing to do with the European continent. Yours was a remark on Christianity, about how it saved everyone from being "rapist and murderer". I stated that not every Non – Christian society in the past was ridden with rapists and murderers. If we take your sentence out of the whole European context, we can detect the fallacy.

    Let us stop pretending for a moment that Christianity took people out of the caves and gave them culture and civilization, as it is not the case.

    It gave our people what it had given, we had nothing better, else we would have it now. What I see is nothing more than whining, why didn't we continue with our own religion, but took the Roman one, well hell, we did it since we were citizens of Rome, or we were living in their influence. It was however not enforced upon our rulers, but was embraced as the next best thing, thus maintaining continuity of our culture.

    #387069

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Christianity is Religion of Europe, it has all to do with Europe. It did not bring people out of caves, but Christians developed European identity, there is no simpler definition.

    Give us some purely christian examples, will you? Violence, death, murder, rape, etc. do not count. Let me see you, my friend…

    #387070

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    It gave our people what it had given, we had nothing better, else we would have it now. What I see is nothing more than whining, why didn't we continue with our own religion, but took the Roman one, well hell, we did it since we were citizens of Rome, or we were living in their influence. It was however not enforced upon our rulers, but was embraced as the next best thing, thus maintaining continuity of our culture.

    Well as I said because of our booming numbers paganism couldn't work anymore. I don't know if it was the next best thing out of all the alternatives, but it certainly maintained our culture.

    However, make no mistake. As we have outlived paganism, we will outlive Christianity and it's outdated ethics too.

    #387071

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well as I said because of our booming numbers paganism couldn't work anymore. I don't know if it was the next best thing out of all the alternatives, but it certainly maintained our culture.

    However, make no mistake. As we have outlived paganism, we will outlive Christianity and it's outdated ethics too.

    We already did. :)

    #387072

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    We already did. :)

    I wouldn't be so sure.

    #387073

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Dark Ages are called Dark for a good reason. Similarly the Renaissance period. I am not against Christianity. Whatever happened happened in our history and we have to accept it. 
    If you are biased and very subjective towards Christianity I don’t think I will want to continue this discussion. There are many topics we can discuss and agree upon on this forum.

    I know you are not against Christianity. :) I just pointed few things where we saw progress in Middle Ages compared with Ancient World. That is also what happened. Not subjective, Middle Ages was progression compared Old Ages, Renessaince is progress compared with Middle Age. I am not discouraging you from discussion, I am just stating my opinion, which is founded on facts IMHO.

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