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  • #358781

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Can Slovens be cosidered extinct too? They are better known as Ilmen Slavs.

    Ok this is probably fake info but according to one Slovene source Novgorod was originaly called Slovensk. ;D Anyway i see one part of Novogorod is called Yaroslavovo Dvorishche and Dvorišče means house yard in Slovene language. Do other languages have this word too? :)

    It's not fake ->  http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Словене

    Ilmen Slovene ->  http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0e/Slav-7-8-obrez.png/544px-Slav-7-8-obrez.png

    There are several nations/nationalities/ethnic groups whose name means Slav :  Slovenes in Slovenia, Slovaks in Slovakia, Slavonians in Croatia, Slowincians in Poland, Slovens in Russia.

    #358782

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Ok this is probably fake info but according to one Slovene source Novgorod was originaly called Slovensk. ;D Anyway i see one part of Novogorod is called Yaroslavovo Dvorishche and Dvorišče means house yard in Slovene language. Do other languages have this word too? :)

    Yes. Serbian двориште, Russian двор. Ilmen Slovenes are one of triebes which constitiude Russian nation. They are in fact originally Rus', that is place where Rurik and his brothers came.

    #358783

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yes. Serbian двориште, Russian двор. Ilmen Slovenes are one of triebes which constitiude Russian nation. They are in fact originally Rus', that is place where Rurik and his brothers came.

    Are dialects in that area any different from standard Russian?

    #358784

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Are dialects in that area any different from standard Russian?

    Well, there are Northern Russian and Southern Russian dialects, also Centrall Russian dialects whic were basis for literary Russian, Novgorodian dialect was member of family of northern dialects. Differences between dialects never were to big, and now all Russians use standard Russian due to educational system and mass media.

    [img height=280 width=200]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/86/%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B0-1965.png” />
    #358785

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, there are Northern Russian and Southern Russian dialects, also Centrall Russian dialects whic were basis for literary Russian, Novgorodian dialect was member of family of northern dialects. Differences between dialects never were to big, and now all Russians use standard Russian due to educational system and mass media.

    We have educational system and mass media too but still many people speak in dialects or under heavy influence of dialect. Actualy person who would speak in pure standard Slovene dosent exist.

    #358786

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    We have educational system and mass media too but still many people speak in dialects or under heavy influence of dialect. Actualy person who would speak in pure standard Slovene dosent exist.

    Well, Russia is somehow different story. Dialects went extinct and all population speak Standard Russian. Well not language of Clasical Russian literature, but I think you got my point. Russian were allway puting high emphasize on education. Also even eith dialects Russian was rather homogenous.

    #358787

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, Russia is somehow different story. Dialects went extinct and all population speak Standard Russian. Well not language of Clasical Russian literature, but I think you got my point. Russian were allway puting high emphasize on education. Also even eith dialects Russian was rather homogenous.

    Yes i understand your point. Thanks for info. It is realy interesting to see how such a huge nation has so small differances between dialects.

    #358788

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yes i understand your point. Thanks for info. It is realy interesting to see how such a huge nation has so small differances between dialects.

    Had :D Dialects are now extinct.  Well, it is not hat hard to explain, Russians ingabited greta Eastern European plains and contacts (cultural, social, trade etc) were strong. There was no to much geographical obstacles.

    #358789

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There isn't much informations about this tribes in historical sources, for most of them we know only that they existed.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draguvites
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smolyani
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berziti
    http://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D1%82%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BC%D1%98%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%85%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%8B

    Many of them recorded during the siege of Thessaloniki in 7th century.

    image

    [img width=700 height=580]http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1081/700zc1.png” />

    List of medieval Slavic tribes
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Medieval_Slavic_tribes

    I don't know about extinct. These were the tribal names of Slavs that settled in the balkans. We are their descendants today, of course with a some Paleo-Balkanic DNA added :)

    #358790

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I don't know about extinct.

    I agree that tern "extinct" isn't proper.

    #358791

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I agree that tern "extinct" isn't proper.

    Maybe we should call them evolved or assimilated. ???

    #358792

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I agree that tern "extinct" isn't proper.

    Not extinct in a biological way, but as ethno-cultural entities, one can say that they are extinct since there is no ethno-cultural continuum anymore, they were absorbed and assimilated by greater tribes or cultures.

    #358793

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Narentines of Pagania…
    Were they of Croatian or Serbian origin it is unknown…

    It is known, one just has to read, rather than to imagine.

    Of the Pagani, also called Arentani, and of the country they now dwell in.
    [hr]
    The country in which the Pagani now dwell was also previously possessed by the Romani whom the emperor Diocletian translated from Rome and settled in Dalmatia. These same Pagani are descended from the unbaptized Serbs, of the time of that prince who claimed the protection of the emperor Heraclius. This country also was enslaved by the Avars and made desolate and repopulated in the time of Heraclius the emperor. The Pagani are so called because they did not accept baptism at the time when all the Serbs were baptized. For 'Pagani' in the tongue of the Slavs means 'unbaptized', but in the tongue of the Romans their country is called Arenta, and so they themselves are called Arentani by these same Romans.

    In Pagania are the inhabited cities of Mokron, Beroullia, Ostrok and Slavinetza. Also, they possess these islands: the large island of Kourkra or Ki[size=1pt]'[/size]ker, on which there is a city; another large island, Meleta, or Malozeatai, which St. Luke mentions in the 'Acts of the Apostles' by the name of Melite, in which a viper fastened upon St. Paul by his finger, and St. Paul burnt it up in the fire; another large island, Phara; another large island, Bratzis. There are other islands not in the possession of these same Pagani: the island of Choara, the island of Ies, the island of Lastobon.

    – De Administrando Imperio chapter 36, Constantine VII, 950 AD (link)

    #358794

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, Russia is somehow different story. Dialects went extinct and all population speak Standard Russian. Well not language of Clasical Russian literature, but I think you got my point. Russian were allway puting high emphasize on education. Also even eith dialects Russian was rather homogenous.

    The written Russian language is standardised; however, the modern spoken language is not.

    There are two or three major dialects recognised in Russia: northern, middle Russian (as in between northern and southern dialects) and southern dialect. There are several subgroups in each dialect.

    For example, in Moscow people use the letter ‘a’ instead of ‘o’ even if the word is written with ‘o’. For example, Moskva is pronounced as Maskva, moloko is pronounced as malako, voda as vada etc. In Nizhny Novgorod, Vladimir an other regions just north of Moscow the letter ‘o’ is used i.e.Moskva, moloko, voda.
    In southern dialect the letter ‘g’ is pronounced softly.

    There are other differences in pronunciation and vocabulary in different regions.
    For example, сем instead of семь, голуп instead of голубь, любоф instead of любовь.

    It’s not always easy to locate the region to which a particular dialect belongs to but we often can hear that the speaker is from another region. I can pick up dialects from North, South, Moscow, Russians from Ukraine, from middle Asia and possibly from Ural region.

    Muscovites are very good at picking up different dialects because they often meet  people visiting Moscow from all over the country.

    I know you can understand some Russian. Here is more information from Wikipedia on dialects in the Russian language – http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B8%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%82%D1%8B_%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D1%8F%D0%B7%D1%8B%D0%BA%D0%B0

    And on Novgorod dialect
    http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B3%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B3%D1%80%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BF%D0%B0_%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2

    #358795

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    For example, сем instead of семь

    What's the difference between these two pronunciations?

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