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  • #345695

    Anonymous

    I been wondering bout this word. Its a word in a 4 language dictionary from 16th century. Whats more, German equalent is also wierd. So i wonder bout all versions not only Slovene one. It goes like this;

    German; Panierherz
    Latin; Vexillifer
    Slovene; Fendrih
    Italian; Alfiere, Banderaro, Gonfaloniere

    Personally i have been thinking the Fendrih is bannerman and Fendrih itself might stem from German fahne perhaps? I know that latin vexillifer could be sort of special standard barer, re-enlisted veteran or maybe both. So which one is more logic in 16th century context? The German Panierherz in this dictionary is composed of Panier and Herz. Thankfully right before to Panierherz there is Panier and its translated as, Latin; Banderu, Slovene; Sastava and Italian; Bandiera. So obviously a flag. So German version is flag-heart in literal sense.

    So did i get it righ Fendrih is bannerman in this dictionary?

    #420696

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I been wondering bout this word. Its a word in a 4 language dictionary from 16th century. Whats more, German equalent is also wierd. So i wonder bout all versions not only Slovene one. It goes like this;

    German; Panierherz
    Latin; Vexillifer
    Slovene; Fendrih
    Italian; Alfiere, Banderaro, Gonfaloniere

    Personally i have been thinking the Fendrih is bannerman and Fendrih itself might stem from German fahne perhaps? I know that latin vexillifer could be sort of special standard barer, re-enlisted veteran or maybe both. So which one is more logic in 16th century context? The German Panierherz in this dictionary is composed of Panier and Herz. Thankfully right before to Panierherz there is Panier and its translated as, Latin; Banderu, Slovene; Sastava and Italian; Bandiera. So obviously a flag. So German version is flag-heart in literal sense.

    So did i get it righ Fendrih is bannerman in this dictionary?

    I believe the modern Slovene equivalent could be simply praporščak, which is a rank in the army. It could also mean zastavonoša. German word for praporščak is Fänrich, if I remember correctly. Also, this word Panier remembers me on the English banner, a sort of flag. I know aquilifers and other -fers were legionars in the Roman army who wore bannersmand insignias of legion, cohortas and similar. So it should bemsome sort of Standart Bearer IMO.

    #420697

    Anonymous

    Great info there Štajrc. The derivation from Fähnrich theory sounds most reasonable. Its wierd how the author of this dictionary used Panierherz instead of Fähnrich. Perhaps some kind of south German speciality?

    Indeed all words in dictionary from German to Italian tend to designate some involvement of standards or flags. Which is similar in nature. To back up your claim;

    Quote:
    German word for praporščak is Fänrich, if I remember correctly.

    Sounds reasonable to me since prapor is flag, banner, ensign in English dictionary.

    Fenrik or Fenrich (German: Fähnrich) is an officer candidate military rank (OR-6) in the Austrian Bundesheer and German Bundeswehr. It is equivalent to the cadet sergeant rank in the US and UK armies, midshipman rank in the US and UK navies, and aviation cadet and acting pilot officer ranks in the United States Air Force and Royal Air Force, respectively.[1] However, Fenrik ranks are often incorrectly compared with the rank of ensign,[citation needed] which shares a similar etymology but is a full-fledged (albeit junior) commissioned officer rank. The word Fenrik comes from an older German military title, Fahnenträger (flag bearer), and first became a distinct military rank on 1 January 1899.

    On wiki i found a cool pic of Bohemian Fähnrich. So i recon this is our Fendrih guy right? Must be since words are extreamly similar. :D Fähnrich, Darstellung aus dem 16. Jahrhundert;

    image

    This Italian version is also interesting;

    The Gonfaloniere was a highly prestigious communal post in medieval and Renaissance Italy, notably in Florence and the Papal States. The name derives from gonfalone, the term used for the banners of such communes.

    In Florence the post was known as Gonfaloniere of Justice, being held by one of the nine citizens selected by drawing lots every two months, who formed the government, or Signoria. In the papal states it was known as Gonfaloniere of the Church or Papal Gonfaloniere. Other central and northern Italian communes, from Spoleto to Piemonte, elected or appointed gonfalonieri. The Bentivoglio family of Bologna aspired to this office during the sixteenth century. A century later, however, when Artemisia Gentileschi painted a portrait of Pietro Gentile as a gonfaloniere of Bologna in 1622, with the gonfalone in the background, the office had merely symbolic value.

    #420698

    Anonymous

    yes, fendrich (fénrich) is banner-carrier, a military rank  :)

    #420699

    Anonymous

    So it seems we solved the mistery of Fendrih. IMO it's such a funjy word. Good lord, where did our ancestors get all this silly derivations from German? ;D

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