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  • #366937

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Well they were quite aware of their origin, Konstantin Mihailović, Mehmed-Paša Sokolović etc. Problem is Turkish nationalism and Pan-Turkism. They are yelling all over the world how they were europid from begining (I guess Yakuts, Kazakhs and Kyrgyz ate something which turned them yellow, not to mention fact that their languages are related to Japanese and Korean and ofc Mongolian). You could learn lot of things there ;D

    I read they are like 9 million ancestral Serbs (!) living in Turkey, which descend from the Serbs that settled the area. They still know their Slava's, and are pretty aware of their ancestry. I personally cannot believe that number, it's almost the same number as here :)

    – link on Serbian

    #366938

    Anonymous

    Yeah, but he has possibly Bosniak ancestry and Muslim one at the same time – which means that assimilation was pretty easy in the case of his ancestors.

    #366939

    Anonymous

    some of the Turks from another forum told me that the guy is really partially Yugoslav, his granfather on his father side is born in Bosnia or something like that. at least that it's what he was claiming at the start of his career. now he is denying that. Tanja Savic sindrome…

    #366940

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yeah, but he has possibly Bosniak ancestry and Muslim one at the same time – which means that assimilation was pretty easy in the case of his ancestors.

    One cannot claim for others, one may believe that he is not an ethnic Turk, hell rarely a Turk is an ethnic Turk, those guys were Asian. If he doesn't embrace his ancestry, noone will do it for him.

    #366941

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Tanja Savic sindrome…

    Well that is mostly our fault that they are discriminated in such manner, having to change their names to be accepted in the society. It is doing us more bad than good. Seka Aleksic (Zuhra Ramizaj), Ceca Raznatovic, Cedomir Jovanovic, etc. from what I heard.

    #366942

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I read they are like 9 million ancestral Serbs (!) living in Turkey, which descend from the Serbs that settled the area. They still know their Slava's, and are pretty aware of their ancestry. I personally cannot believe that number, it's almost the same number as here :)

    – link on Serbian

    I think 9 milion is exageterated. Sure, it is well known that after fall of Belgrade all Serbs from there were settled near Constantinople, but they were allowed to keep religion, it is more likely they assimilated in Greeks, before 1921, Constantinople was still city with Christian majority , (370 000 Christians (Greeks and Armenians) vs 300 000 Muslims), but hard to say without serious researches.

    Quote:
    One cannot claim for others, one may believe that he is not an ethnic Turk, hell rarely a Turk is an ethnic Turk, those guys were Asian. If he doesn't embrace his ancestry, noone will do it for him.

    He is Turk, no matter of ancestry, he chose to be one. Ethnicity is rather subjective. Shandor Poteffi was of mixed Serbo-Slovak ancesty, nevertheless he died fighting Serbs and Slovaks (among others).

    #366943

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    He is Turk, no matter of ancestry, he chose to be one. Ethnicity is rather subjective. Shandor Poteffi was of mixed Serbo-Slovak ancesty, nevertheless he died fighting Serbs and Slovaks (among others).

    Well there is a matter of ancestry, I would accept every person, regardless of religion, that is of Serb ancestry, as fellow Serb, of course given he himself embraces it and wants to be seen this way.

    But yes, he is what he has chosen to be.

    #366944

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    some of the Turks from another forum told me that the guy is really partially Yugoslav, his granfather on his father side is born in Bosnia or something like that. at least that it's what he was claiming at the start of his career. now he is denying that. Tanja Savic sindrome…

    Quote:
    One cannot claim for others, one may believe that he is not an ethnic Turk, hell rarely a Turk is an ethnic Turk, those guys were Asian. If he doesn't embrace his ancestry, noone will do it for him.

    I must say this again – a Turkish girl told me that when Turks see white-looking persons in Turkey (not tourists!), Turks think they are Russians … -> so that means Slavic. And even her friend from Turkey didn't look like her (very dark), she was paler and had light brown hair… then I found out that her mother was Bosniak. And here we go… the Janissaries – now in the sense of assimilated whites in Turkey.

    Well, genetics and national awareness are two different things.

    #366945

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well that is mostly our fault that they are discriminated in such manner, having to change their names to be accepted in the society. It is doing us more bad than good. Seka Aleksic (Zuhra Ramizaj), Ceca Raznatovic, Cedomir Jovanovic, etc. from what I heard.

    they are discriminated everywhere in Europe. Orthodox gypsies have serbian names, muslims have arabic or Latin (Kasandra,Samanta, Rozalinda) lol

    #366946

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    they are discriminated everywhere in Europe. Orthodox gypsies have serbian names, muslims have arabic or Latin (Kasandra,Samanta, Rozalinda) lol

    Yes they are, but because of that discrimination they are adopting our culture, and desecrating it, in my eyes at least. I was once in a Serbian Orthodox Church in Vienna, and I saw almost no Serbs, eventhough the church was full. Then I started to reflect. Discrimination is wrong, they should stay what they are, and not adopt our culture.

    To be honest I have more respect towards a Roma that is what he is, than the one trying to be something he ain't.

    #366947

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well there is a matter of ancestry, I would accept every person, regardless of religion, that is of Serb ancestry, as fellow Serb, of course given he himself embraces it and wants to be seen this way.

    Well, you do not chose who will be Serb, it is up to each person to decide. What is Serbian ancestry? We are mixture of Slavs and Illyrians mostly, there is lot more influences also, ethnicity is more question of identification than ancestry. You have persons of pure Serbian ancestry who dont one to be such, you have people who chosed to be Serbs (Pavle Jurišić Šturm, Franjo Ribnikar, Rihard Radmilo Lang).

    #366948

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yes they are, but because of that discrimination they are adopting our culture, and desecrating it, in my eyes at least. I was once in a Serbian Orthodox Church in Vienna, and I saw almost no Serbs, eventhough the church was full. Then I started to reflect. Discrimination is wrong, they should stay what they are, and not adopt our culture.

    To be honest I have more respect towards a Roma that is what he is, than the one trying to be something he ain't.

    yeah, that is true.
    I think that Romanians and Bulgarians have bigger problem with that though.

    #366949

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, you do not chose who will be Serb, it is up to each person to decide. What is Serbian ancestry? We are mixture of Slavs and Illyrians mostly, there is lot more influences also, ethnicity is more question of identification than ancestry. You have persons of pure Serbian ancestry who dont one to be such, you have people who chosed to be Serbs (Pavle Jurišić Šturm, Franjo Ribnikar, Rihard Radmilo Lang).

    Why should I chose? Serbian ancestry is paternal lineage to the people known as Serbs inhabiting the ethnic region historically inhabited by Serbs. Every family, or individual knows best what his ancestry is, it is not up to me to claim nor to chose, who is or isn't a Serb.

    I am stating that those individuals of Serbian ancestry, I would accept as fellow Serbs, regardless of religion, if they as well see themselves as such, if not then not. Others I would accept as citizens of the nation.

    You can chose how to identify, with which nation, but you cannot chose what you are, that is given by birth, for you to embrace it, or not.

    P.S. It is not false to identify with a different nation than your ancestry is, if you were born there, living there, not discriminated against, feeling accepted and comfortable there. However denying your ancestry is always frown upon as lack of dignity.

    #366950

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Why should I chose? Serbian ancestry is paternal lineage to the people known as Serbs inhabiting the ethnic region historically inhabited by Serbs. Every family, or individual knows best what his ancestry is, it is not up to me to claim nor to chose, who is or isn't a Serb.

    I am stating that those individuals of Serbian ancestry, I would accept as fellow Serbs, regardless of religion, if they as well see themselves as such, if not then not. Others I would accept as citizens of the nation.

    You can chose how to identify, with which nation, but you cannot chose what you are, that is given by birth, for you to embrace it, or not.

    P.S. It is not false to identify with a different nation than your ancestry is, if you were born there, living there, not discriminated against, feeling accepted and comfortable there. However denying your ancestry is always frown upon as lack of dignity.

    Nationality is rather subjective category. Miloradovići were of Serbian ancestry, they were very proud of that but again, they lived in Russia, they participated in Russian culture and politics and they identified themselves as such. They were Russian. Simple.
    As far as some Euroepan (in broader senes ie white) chose to identify himself or herself with Serbs he is Serb, taht is how things looked like for major part of our history. Yes, Serbs mostly originated from Slavic wariors invited by Roman (Byzantine Empire), but there are Illyrians (who left lot of their genofond, Greeks, smaller slavic tribes Timočani for example…)

    #366951

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Nationality is rather subjective category. Miloradovići were of Serbian ancestry, they were very proud of that but again, they lived in Russia, they participated in Russian culture and politics and they identified themselves as such. They were Russian. Simple.
    As far as some Euroepan (in broader senes ie white) chose to identify himself or herself with Serbs he is Serb, taht is how things looked like for major part of our history. Yes, Serbs mostly originated from Slavic wariors invited by Roman (Byzantine Empire), but there are Illyrians (who left lot of their genofond, Greeks, smaller slavic tribes Timočani for example…)

    Yes, but those Slavic warriors, or however one may interpret them, is the lineage we are carrying, thus our ancestry. It is true that we have Thraco-Illyrians in our genofond (you spread the tribe over foreign women), but not their lineage we are carrying. The lineage was the first fundament for building a family > clan > tribe > state > ethnos > nation. By assimilating others in the family, clan or tribe, the ethnos was wided.

    Thus it is normal to identify with the nation living in, especially for generations, if accepted however, meaning not discriminated against, nonetheless denying your ancestry is to this day (in my opinion) frown upon, I see it as a lack of dignity. If born in Russia I would certainly have more to identify with the Russian than the Serbian nation, however denying that I am a Serb, thus posing as an ethnic Russian, is in my opinion just false and shows lack of respect towards yourself.

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