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  • #343524

    Anonymous

    Why is it Bosna i Hercegovina and not just Bosna? I mean dose Hercegovina even have any seperate history. Was Hercegovina a seperate realm, etc? Also since title of this thread is Hercegovina this thread can be anything about Hercegovina generaly. :)

    #386650

    Anonymous

    I think during Austro-Hungarian times Bosnia was split into Bosnia and Herzegovina. Then when Yugoslavia was created, it united Bosnia and Herzegovina. And I think Herzegovina was a duchy during medieval times.

    #386651

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Why is it Bosna i Hercegovina and not just Bosna? I mean dose Hercegovina even have any seperate history. Was Hercegovina a seperate realm, etc? Also since title of this thread is Hercegovina this thread can be anything about Hercegovina generaly. :)

    Hercegovina, originally Vojvodstvo od Sv. Save
    [hr]
    The region was partly a Serbian realm called Zahumlje. The lord of Zahumlje and Primorje in the 15th century, Stefan Vukčić Kosača, denominated himself as 'Vojvoda of Svetog Save', the Duke of Saint Sava, he however shifted the term Vojvoda in the German form, namely Herzog of St. Sava. With time people living in that region called it the 'dukes land' or Hercegova zemlja, tj. Hercegovina.

    For Serbs, the Hercegovina region is one of the core ethnic territories, which is unfortunately divided by three states. There is also western Hercegovina, or Latin Hercegovina, which is inhabited by Croats, namely Herceg-Bosna.

    #386652

    Anonymous

    So basicaly Hercegovians were Zahumljian seperatists seeking political ties with HRE. Very Slavic indeed and i am not joking i mean it! :D

    #386653

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Why is it Bosna i Hercegovina and not just Bosna? I mean dose Hercegovina even have any seperate history. Was Hercegovina a seperate realm, etc? Also since title of this thread is Hercegovina this thread can be anything about Hercegovina generaly. :)

    Hercegovina (Hum, Zahumlje, Humska Zemlja) was usually autonomus princedom under supreme rule of Raška (for 50 or so years it accepted Dukljan/Zetan hegemony). Of first princes, history know for Mihailo Višević who allways was in conflicts with his susrains from Ras (Petar Gojniković, Zaharije Pribisavjević, Pavle Branović). It seems he was aware of his blood relations with Polish and Lusatian princes, altough 3 centuries passed from Serbian arrival in Balkans. Latter princes were not well known. In end of XII century, Stefan Nemanja apointed his brother Stefan Miroslav as ruler. (Famous manuscript Miroslav's Gospel was written for him, that how it got name) After some time, Nemanja's son Rastko was appointed as Prince of Hum, but he chose monastery and eclesiastical life (that is famous Saint Sava).  After Rasto's abdication Miroslav's descendants rulled Hum until middle of 13th century, as apointees of their cousins from Ras.
    In late of 13th and first 14th century, Serbs lead verry agressive and expansionistic politics, and started conquering lot of areas in South, East and North. It meant, little care was put on western boundary where was friendly Bosna. Bosnian rulers were cousins of Nemanjići, and genreally considered themselves Serbs (that you could read in their charters and diplomas, Croats and Bosniaks might have different interpretation of those diplomas, but I do not intend to start another flame war. I just stated what is could read from sources).
    Ban Stjepan II of Bosna used this oportunity to sieze  part of Hum 1322. Serbs did not react because of civil war betwen sons of Kings Dragutin and Milutin. Latter Serbian Kingdom was faced by Bulgarian-Byzantine invasion, hich was soudly defeated in Battle of Velbužd.
    Tsar Dušan was more interested in wars with Byzant and occasionaly with Hungary. Altough he became famous after 1329 when he defeated his cousin Stjepan II. In 1350 his armies recaptured Hum, but he was forced to retreat because of another war with Byzantine co-emperor John VI,a nd latter because of Turkish incursions, also he got involved in Byzantine civil wars.
    Eastern part remained in hands of Serbia for some more time. Future co-ruler King Vukašin was governer of Trebinje in 1346/1347. Marko Kraljević was probably born in Hercegovina. After death of Tsar Dušan, Serbia faced great desintegrity of feudal overlords. (Similar thing which happened in France and Germany in late Karolingian period). Mighty and ruthless grand prince Vojislav Vojinović rulled parts of Hum, Tahumlje, Travunia, Raška, Zeta, Kosovo. He was pretty clever tough and acted as representative of weak Tsar Uroš V. When he died his nephwe Nikola Altomanović was even more rutheless and arogan so he forced Prince Lazar, who had domain arround Kruševac, and ban Tvrtko of Bosna to create coallition against him. Allies defeated him and divided his lands.
    In that manner all modern Hecegovina cam under Bosnian rule. Tvrtko I was crowned king of Bosna and Serbia 1377 in monaster Mileševa. (altough he was Roman Catholic, crowning took place in Orthodox monastery and was performed by Orthodox metropolitan of Mileševo). After Tvrtko's death, Bosna faced same kind of disitnegrity as Serbia few decades prior. Zahumlje, Hum and Travunija came mostly under rule of Kosača family. First duke acted as indipendent ruler, he allied himself with Turks, and only nominal accepted Bosnian Kings. His nephew Stefan (again ther is controversy about his ethnicity, altough we for sure know he was Orthodox) ruled in similar manner. He proclaimed himself Herceg od Svetog Save (Dux de Sancti Sabae) (Because Monastery of Mileševa was in his doamins). After him Turks named his country Hercegovina. He started as Turkish ally as well, but he changed so much allies during his rule thta it is impossible to coun all. Turks took off last remenants of his lands 1477. One of his sons, converted Islam, and became first South Slavic Grand Vezier.
    Turks incorporated Hercegovinian Sanjak as part of Bosnian Eyalet, and from tah time Hercegovina became connected with Bosna.
    In XIX century  Hercegovina was separate vilayet from 1833 to 1851, because Hercgovinian beys supported Padishah agains Bosnian beys:

    image.

    Demographicaly speaking, Eastern Hercegovina had Serbian majority, Western Croatian, and parts of central Hercegovina had Bosniak majority.

    #386654

    Anonymous

    Thanks for detailed answer Dalibor. :)

    #386655

    Anonymous

    Hercegovina is a very nice place with many nice places.
    One of the main cities in Hercegovina and its unoffical captial is a town called Mostar which is named after the bridge known as the "Stari Most". It was built in 1566 and Suleiman the Magnificent himself ordered it to be constructed. It is made over the river Neretva and connects the town. It stood for 427 years until it was destroyed in the recent war. It was re-made and opened in 2004. A long time tradition is diving from the bridge. It was very risky because the river Neretva is very cold, so only the best would do this.

    #386656

    Anonymous

    Hercegovina now is a sub region of Bosnia. Austrians forced that we put Hercegovina in the name of our state around 1906. For most of it's history starting starting from the annexation of Zahumlje to Bosnian kingdom it has remained an integral province of Bosnia. It's a Bosnian sub-region just like Podrinje, Krajina, Soli, Vrhbosna etc except it's filled with backstabbers and traitors of all national stripes and religions.

    I hope one day we throw out the name of Hercegovina from the name of the state, because saying "Bosanskohercegovaćki građanin" is a bloody mouthful.

    #386657

    Anonymous

    I agree "Herzegovina" should be taken out of the state name, but why are they traitors?

    #386658

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I agree "Herzegovina" should be taken out of the state name, but why are they traitors?

    Betrayal of Gradašević, Hadžijamaković and most fervent prosecutors of Hamziis. From my perspective that's speaks tons about them.

    #386659

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Betrayal of Gradašević, Hadžijamaković and most fervent prosecutors of Hamziis. From my perspective that's speaks tons about them.

    Yeah, but Osman Gradaščević and Mehmed-beg Kulenović came from the region of Bosnia ;D and they betrayed Serbs in First Serb Uprising by trying to crush Serbian revolutionaries.

    #386660

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I agree "Herzegovina" should be taken out of the state name, but why are they traitors?

    Lol, are you aware that it is impossible? Serbs and Croats will never allow it. Svevlad, honestly, I dont think that even majority of Bosniaks have problem with it.
    PS
    Good part of Hercegovina is now part of Montenegro

    image

    #386661

    Anonymous

    All of us are most defenitly NOT traitors, thats like saying every American is an idiot, it isnt true. Bosnia and Herzegovina has been our name for a hundred years at least. I do not favor it to be taken out. It truly annoys me when people say ohh you're from Bosnia. I am not from Bosnia, i'm from Herzegovina or at least call it Bosnia and Herzegovina.

    #386662

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    (…) every American is an idiot (…)

    You also have this stereotype about Americans? Maybe that's not only stereotypical after all.  ;)

    Quote:
    Lol, are you aware that it is impossible? Serbs and Croats will never allow it. (…)

    May I ask why? I am rather not familiar with Balkanian politics.

    #386663

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Lol, are you aware that it is impossible? Serbs and Croats will never allow it. Svevlad, honestly, I dont think that even majority of Bosniaks have problem with it.

    I didn't say it was going to happen ::) I just want to see it dropped from the official name.

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