Viewing 15 posts - 91 through 105 (of 108 total)
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  • #366241

    Anonymous

    You shouldn’t be. You didn’t start all of this

    #366242

    Anonymous

    Sure, there are differences in frequency, but Scandinavians and North/East Germans appear genetically about as close to Poles and Czechs in terms of frequency as they seem to be when compared with English and Dutch peoples.

    I believe that there is genetic continuoum across Europe and not really area, where meta-ethnicity ends and another begins and genetics change completely (though I admit, R1a and R1b frequencies change quite dramatically, so you have some right).

    Btw, have a look at it:

    A new study on human Y chromosomes has found a strong differentiation between German and Polish Y-chromosomes. The differentiation occurs precisely at the border between the two countries, with all German and all Polish populations clustering together.

    The explanation for this phenomenon is that resettlements after WWII homogenized the two nations on an ethnic basis. Moreover, a necessary assumption is that there was little male admixture between the two peoples when they co-existed geographically.

    The differentiation is evident based on analyses both of Y-STR haplotypes and Y-chromosomal haplogroups. The main contributors to the differentiation are the higher frequency of R1a1 in Poland and correspondingly higher frequency of R1*(xR1a1) in Germany, and the presence of different haplotype clusters for haplogroup I in the two countries. The correspondence analysis between haplogroups and populations is particularly interesting:

    We see that Poles are differentiated by Germans on the basis of R1a1 and N3 (Finno-Ugrian admixture). The differentiation on the basis of I subgroups is not evident, because no downstream markers for this haplogroup were examined in this study.

    Also of particular interest is that of the two Neolithic haplogroups, J2 is associated with Germans, whereas DE* is apparently not. So, this may hint at different patterns of arrival of the two haplogroups in this part of the world. This would agree with some recent results from Balkan Slavic populations, that typically found a higher-percentage of YAP (DE) lineages than J2 ones.

    Significant genetic differentiation between Poland and Germany follows present-day political borders, as revealed by Y-chromosome analysis

    Manfred Kayser et al.

    Abstract To test for human population substructure and to investigate human population history we have analysed Y-chromosome diversity using seven microsatellites (Y-STRs) and ten binary markers (Y-SNPs) in samples from eight regionally distributed populations from Poland (n=913) and 11 from Germany (n=1,215). Based on data from both Y-chromosome marker systems, which we found to be highly correlated (r=0.96), and using spatial analysis of the molecular variance (SAMOVA), we revealed statistically significant support for two groups of populations: (1) all Polish populations and (2) all German populations. By means of analysis of the molecular variance (AMOVA) we observed a large and statistically significant proportion of 14% (for Y-SNPs) and 15% (for Y-STRs) of the respective total genetic variation being explained between both countries. The same population differentiation was detected using Monmonierrsquos algorithm, with a resulting genetic border between Poland and Germany that closely resembles the course of the political border between both countries. The observed genetic differentiation was mainly, but not exclusively, due to the frequency distribution of two Y-SNP haplogroups and their associated Y-STR haplotypes: R1a1*, most frequent in Poland, and R1*(xR1a1), most frequent in Germany. We suggest here that the pronounced population differentiation between the two geographically neighbouring countries, Poland and Germany, is the consequence of very recent events in human population history, namely the forced human resettlement of many millions of Germans and Poles during and, especially, shortly after World War II. In addition, our findings have consequences for the forensic application of Y-chromosome markers, strongly supporting the implementation of population substructure into forensic Y chromosome databases, and also for genetic association studies.

    ]http://www.springerlink.com/content/w75j6048545350g5/]
    Source: http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2005/06/strong-differentiation-between-germans.html

    #366244

    Anonymous

    I jus saw it now… Damn, how much of R1a is in Austrian Styria

    #366245

    Anonymous

    As a non germanic and non slavic, during the last years i always thought that the vast majority of germans living in austria and everywhere in Germany possibly except of northwestern areas, as long as “their nicknames, culture, tradition, costumes etc.” (as prohvec said, i would add their racial types), have many similarities with slavs and differences with northern or western Europe.

    actually SLavs are more “racial group” than germanics.It is Germanics who are only a linguistic group.

    #366246

    Anonymous

    Seriously on what grounds?

    #366247

    Anonymous

    by DNA and racial types they are more homogenous than Germanics, also by history they were closer to each other than Germanics.For example scandinavians were very seperated from goths etc.

    An English is for sure more seperated from an Austrian than a Czech from a Russian

    #366248

    Anonymous

    An English is for sure more seperated from an Austrian than a Czech from a Russian

    So can i assume that Slovenes are on average similar looking to Belarusians?

    #366249

    Anonymous

    compare to germanics who look very seperated, at least both belarusians and Slovenes are brachycephalics (and both have big percentage of dinaric)

    #366250

    Anonymous

    The progenitures of Germanic culture were the Norsemen who conquered Britain (and imposing a sorts of Saxon culture and thus creating the 'Germanic' identity of the contemporary British people).  Likewise – the culture we know as the "Germans" were created by the Franks, the ancestors of the contemporary French.   

    The various Germanic people in history, and I refer to the migratory tribes, often had Slavic names (like the Winnili ~ Winnili = Wend = Slav) but retrospectively were Germanizied by German historians, with an agenda, in recent centuries

    With the exception of language, I would say Scandinavians have more in common with mainstream Slavs in Phenotype and Culture than with mainstream Germanics (which includes the British).  Even on genetic maps, Swedes technically group closer to Poles and Russians (than with the British) while the British group closer to the French and Spaniards.  Phenotype wise, you see a lot of similiarties between the British / French / Spaniards.  Culturally speaking, Vodka and Spas were entirely unknown things in Britain until the 1970s (and even to this day, a "Spa" is a homosexual orgy house as opposed to the family friendly Sauna tradition in Scandinavia and Eastern Europe).

    Having met a lot of British and Scandinavian tourists in South East Asia, the two groups don't get along at all and look nothing alike and have really nothing in common.

    #366251

    Anonymous

    How much of the British people are actually Germanic? Most to me do not seem this way at all. Why? Because when I have been across the channel into the Netherlands and Belgium the peoples in those places to me did not look very similar to the British. It was very easy for me to identify a Netherlander like a Britisher. For me the British have a very distinct appearance.

    #366252

    Anonymous

    They're Germanic because they speak a Germanic language.
    And yes, modern English is Germanic, because its basic lexicon is.

    #366253

    Anonymous

    Yes but to speak a language and have cultural elements is not to have the genetics. However, a recent genetic test showed that a high number of British men have Germanic blood so there is a Germanic element. Although in my view it is not the only thing there. Among the Scots I have seen that they tend to be more Germanic than the English as well. Some of them could even pass in Germany.

    #366254

    Anonymous

    "Germanic" is a linguistic term, though. And culture (besides material one, of course) is transferred by a lot of talking. ;D
    In the biological sense, of course, the substratum in the British isles is very strong, and the English have as much "blood" from populations speaking Celtic and pre-Celtic languages as the Celts themselves. However, you can't apply terms like "Germanic", "Bantu" or "Sioux" to genetics; that's why genetic markers have all those fancy denotements (R1 etc.) in order to avoid labeling them with terms from another scientific disciplines which would be inaccurate in the biological discourse.

    #366255

    Anonymous

    Ofc. Scotland did recive some German burghers if i uderstood corectly but yeah Ango-Saxon invasion was roughly newcommers who subjigated and assimilated pre-Germanic folk like local Celts and romanised folk. Naturally these people mixed + Norman conquest made sure much of vocabulary became romance. Presonally i believe Germanic element is predominant by blood. Even Germans aren’t that “pure” by blood. Indeed i believe there is no such thing as German, Slovene, etc. look.

    #366258

    Anonymous

    Scotsmen don't really differ that much from Englishmen.  I've been to Scotland and the differences were only marginal (though Scotsmen did seem more heartier / stronger looking than the English).  For every blonde 'Germanic looking' Scotsmen, you get like 20 Gordon Browns (and he looks more like a Spaniard from Galicia Spain than a Swede from Stockholm).  Nevertheless, Scotsmen in Britain are outnumbered 9:1 / 10:1 by Englishmen.

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