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  • #343903

    Anonymous

    There are several countries in Europe which are not per se Slavic but have a lot of Slavic heritage which is reflected until today.
    So try to express in percentage the Slavic influence in the following nations and try to give reasons for it in the best possible way.

    Austria
    Hungary
    Romania
    Greece
    Germany

    #393551

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Austria

    Carinthia & Styria are extremely Slavic in vernacular architecture. Many Austrian dialects like Carinthian, Styrian and surprisingly Tyrolean exhibit linguistic influence from Slavs.

    Quote:
    Hungary

    Very Slavic in traditional costumes and many regions have also very Slavic looking vernacular architecture. Language has alot of Slavic elements.

    Quote:
    Romania

    Like Hungarians they have very Slavic traditional costumes but vernacular architecture is kinda less Slavic imho altho still it is quite similar. Likewise language has alot of Slavic elements.

    Quote:
    Greece

    North parts of Greek region of Macedonia has strong Slavic presence. Honestly I don't have a clue how big influence Slavs had on Greeks.

    Quote:
    Germany

    East Germany has a lot of Slavic influence especially in place names. Likewise east German dialects exhibit Slavic influence. Surprisingly vernacular architecture is more Germanic than Slavic except for parts of Saxony and parts of Brandenburg where their vernacular architecture shows half Germanic and half Slavic elements.

    Additionally Ruhr area has some Slavic influence via immigrants from previous decades.

    #393552

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Austria
    Hungary
    Romania
    Greece
    Germany

    Well, Austria is the lost teritory the Germanics stole from Slovenes and West slavs (Czech and Slovak). Its strong Slavic past is undeniable.

    Hungary is some more teritory lost to foreigners. Still the teritories Slavic past can't be denied.

    Romania is the only real stronghold which somehow stood against Slavs. Anyway, it's been unfluenced by Slavs in a huge way.

    Germany (it's east) is damn Slavic it shouldn't even be part of them. ;D

    #393553

    Anonymous

    I think Romania has most Slavic heritage of mentioned. I would not overstimate Slavic impact on Austria, Germany and Hungary, yes there is, but it was not as strong as on Romania. On other hand, Greeks did expirienced impact of Slavdom, but they left even bigger mark on Orthodox Slavs (and partialy on Slavs as whole)

    #393554

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There are several countries in Europe which are not per se Slavic but have a lot of Slavic heritage which is reflected until today.
    So try to express in percentage the Slavic influence in the following nations and try to give reasons for it in the best possible way.

    Austria
    Hungary
    Romania
    Greece
    Germany

    All apart Romania have deep anti-Slavic sentiment.
    I think:
    Hungary 40% Austria 25%, Romania 20%, Greece /, Germany /.

    Last two don't have Slavic influence because they are implementing forceful assimilation of the Slavs.

    #393555

    Anonymous

    What is so anti-Slavic in Greece? They have issues with Macedonians, but they are in excellent relations with Serbs and Greeks, and in good with Bulgarians.
    Concerning forcefull assimilation, from Greeks, when and how?
    All I know Slavs themselves imprted Greek faith, script, literature, paintings…

    #393556

    Anonymous

    Greeks like to view Slavs as inferior historically. The exception being Serbians.

    #393557

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Greeks like to view Slavs as inferior historically. The exception being Serbians.

    Greeks see anyone inferior to them ;D.
    But to be serious, Greeks allways were in good relations with Serbs and Russians. Serbs and Russians on other side have Byzantine Imperial Eagle on CoA. Also Serbian cross with four firesteels is another Imperial symbol.

    #393558

    Anonymous

    Romanians have through the centuries struggled against Slavic influence, so IMO it would be fair to respect their wishes and not call them "Slavs in denial" or smtn. And as Shaokang mentioned there is a deep anti-Slavic sentiment among some Romanian groups.

    I think Hungarians have the strongest Slavic influence + they live on borrowed Slavic lands (even though they like to pretend it's the other way around).

    [img width=300 height=200]http://rendteremto.uw.hu/Kepek/Plakatok/Justice%20for%20Hungary!.jpg” />

    #393559

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    But to be serious, Greeks allways were in good relations with Serbs and Russians. Serbs and Russians on other side have Byzantine Imperial Eagle on CoA. Also Serbian cross with four firesteels is another Imperial symbol.

    Yes, Russians and Serbians (because of Orthodoxy). But generally speaking, they viewed Slavs as barbarians; a threat to their advanced civilisation ::)

    #393560

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    What is so anti-Slavic in Greece?

    I believe government and elite pollute Greek people with hatred toward Slavs, and goes for few centuries in past

    They have issues with Macedonians, but they are in excellent relations with Serbs and Greeks, and in good with Bulgarians.
    Concerning forcefull assimilation, from Greeks, when and how?
    All I know Slavs themselves imprted Greek faith, script, literature, paintings…

    Dalibor, I know many Serbs, especially Bosnian Serbs, have positive feelings for Greeks. But, lets look at the facts… Slavs in Greece lived in whats now whole northern Greece. All of the places had Slavic names. Even cities with "ancient" Greek names(switched after Balkan wars) such as Pella, Thessaloniki, Kilkis etc are known in our language by they Slavic names, and it wouldn't be so if they weren't populated by Slavs. There are precise Turkish records about population there during Ottoman period.

    Estimate is there is about 100 000 – 200 000 Slavs in Greece(whether Bulgarian or Macedonian its irrelevant) and they have no rights at all. They're treated as immigrants, even though most of northern Greeks came in Greece from Greece-Turkey population exchange(also after Balkan wars).

    There is also document I found where one Greek person said that Slavophones should be Hellenized, dating back from late 18th century if I recall well(and I can really confirm you this from stories of some of my relatives who lived there).

    But all is not lost as I firmly believe as the time goes by Greek hatred against Slavs will slowly disappear, as they are far less Slavophobic than they were just a century ago, and it takes time to understand that their government manipulated them a lot

    #393561

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yes, Russians and Serbians (because of Orthodoxy). But generally speaking, they viewed Slavs as barbarians; a threat to their advanced civilisation ::)

    Barbarian acctually means anyone who could not speak Greek, same as we called Germans нѣмци, mutes. Romans changed meaning of it in all uncivilised people (they were barbarians according to Greek standards)

    Quote:
    I believe government and elite pollute Greek people with hatred toward Slavs, and goes for few centuries in past

    I did not notice such hatred towards Slavs, I was in Greece dozen times. They have issues with Macedonians as I said, but they do not hate Slavs as whole.

    Quote:
    Slavs in Greece lived in whats now whole northern Greece. All of the places had Slavic names. Even cities with "ancient" Greek names(switched after Balkan wars) such as Pella, Thessaloniki, Kilkis etc are known in our language by they Slavic names,

    Кукуш is Romance name. Солун Turkic, Пела is same in Serbian. Anyway, Thessaloniki had Turkic and Jewish majority before Balkan wars. This was just for historical correctness.

    Quote:
    There is also document I found where one Greek person said that Slavophones should be Hellenized, dating back from late 18th century if I recall well(and I can really confirm you this from stories of some of my relatives who lived there).

    There were Phanariotes who were introducing Koine Greek instead of Church Slavonic amog Serbs ad Bulgarians and Macedonians. But, there were decent Greek metropolitans who were supporting Slavic literature. (Metodije of Belgrade, Antim of Valjevo, Dionisije of Zvornik, Amvrosije of Dabar and Bosnia). I speak about all Balkan Slavs. But also dont forget they were also fighiting with us against Turks.
    Concerning Hellenistaion of Slavs, when Serbs and Bulgarians in Middle ages captured some Greek areas, they introduced Church Slavonic language, Slavic Bishops etc.
    We (Slavs as whole) are not inocent side. But if we measure hostilities and good things from them we will see good things will prevail. Don't forget Slavs baptised in Greek Church were using Slavic language, while those in Western, except few Croatian parishes were using Latin. Yes there were attempts of Hellenisation, but I think you would agree that on start they helped us to develop Slavic literature.

    #393562

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Greeks see anyone inferior to them ;D.
    But to be serious, Greeks allways were in good relations with Serbs and Russians. Serbs and Russians on other side have Byzantine Imperial Eagle on CoA. Also Serbian cross with four firesteels is another Imperial symbol.

    Its actually ancient Sumerian symbol  ;D

    #393563

    Anonymous

    I think Romania and Hungary are most influenced by the Slavs. Linguistically, culturally, genetically…

    German East is also under strong Slavic influence, during the Slavic population living there.

    I haven't studied enough the issue with the Slavic people in Austria and their influence there, but I don't doubt there is trace left there.

    And finally, Greece… Unlike Romania and Hungary, they deny any Slavic influence and their policy was always focused on undoing it. You decide how successful they are.

    Quote:
    What is so anti-Slavic in Greece? They have issues with Macedonians, but they are in excellent relations with Serbs and Greeks, and in good with Bulgarians.
    Concerning forcefull assimilation, from Greeks, when and how?
    All I know Slavs themselves imprted Greek faith, script, literature, paintings…

    There are even more Slavic toponyms in Greece than in Albania, and by Greece I mean the territories south of the province of Macedonia. If we could assume what happened to this population akin to us in Albania, it is reasonable to think that something similar happened to the ones in Greece.

    Quote:
    But to be serious, Greeks allways were in good relations with Serbs and Russians. Serbs and Russians on other side have Byzantine Imperial Eagle on CoA. Also Serbian cross with four firesteels is another Imperial symbol.

    I wouldn't say so… Greeks have political clashes with the Russians in the last 150 years about prevalence of the Balkans. Russia saw the Slavs as a chance for expanding its influence here, while the Greek state tried to use the Orthodoxy and the Patriarchate of Constantinople as their weapon for expanding.
    Eventually, Russia did manage to spoil some of the Greek plans and I believe this is the origin of Greek "hatred" against all the Slavs…

    But, of course, they won't have anything against you as long as you spend enough money in their tourist centers.  ;D

    #393564

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I wouldn't say so… Greeks have political clashes with the Russians in the last 150 years about prevalence of the Balkans. Russia saw the Slavs as a chance for expanding its influence here, while the Greek state tried to use the Orthodoxy and the Patriarchate of Constantinople as their weapon for expanding.
    Eventually, Russia did manage to spoil some of the Greek plans and I believe this is the origin of Greek "hatred" against all the Slavs…

    Which Clashes? Even Megali Idea was devised by Russians. Russian prince Konstantin was supposed to be new Emperor. They were allways on Russian side in last 150 years (except communism). Russians liberated them from Turks, They preserved them from Turkish retributions after 1897. During Criimean war Greeks were blocaded in order prevent them on Russian side. Greeks  like Serbs were allways staunch Russian allies on Balkans. (Serbian allies also).
    I know you have issues with them, but Russians do not.
    Or we could ask Sibiryak for opinion.

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