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  • #346537

    Anonymous

    Many Skopye "linguists" claim Old Church Slavonic=Old Macedonian because it originated in Macedonia.
    However:
    1. "Old Church Slavonic" originates in Suho village in Greece (and another village near Suho, these two villages' dialect is closest to Old Bulgarian).
    The current shape of this language, the Suho dialect is Eastern Bulgarian although it has a large Western (Macedonian) Bg influence. It is much closer to the dialects spoken in neighborin THRACE (both in Bg and Greece) than to the codificed Western Bulgarian dialect ("Macedonian" "language") (it guess this ain't no secret code since all Bg can break it anytime they hear this "codified" "language", meaning they understand the "language", are there non-secret codes too? aren't codes supposed to be secret?  😮 )
    2. Bulgarian is closer to "OCS" than Macedonian, it is the only Slavic language to have kept Old Bulgarian sht and zhd as reflexs of the common Slavic tj and dj.
    3. Codifing a dialect doesn't equal creating a language/ethnicity. There are 2 Norwegian "languages", codified dialects and one Norwegian ethnicity. There may be a Macedonian nation but there is no Macedonian ethnicity and no Macedonian language.
    4. If "Old Church Slavonic" is Old Macedonian what is Ancient Macedonian (Pella Tablets and Hesychius glossary language)? Ancient Slavonic/Slavic??? what about proto-Slavic, common Slavic? Is that proto-Macedonian? Which Slavic language is older? Proto-Macedonian or Ancient Macedonian?  ;D
    I hear Greeks and Albanians are selling logic cheaply lately. Go buy some, "Macedonian" "linguists"!
    The same for Serb and Croat "linguists". Go buy some! And then some more, and then some more again  ;D
    Love you, you "scientists"  :-*

    #431836

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Many Skopye "linguists" claim Old Church Slavonic=Old Macedonian because it originated in Macedonia.
    However:
    1. "Old Church Slavonic" originates in Suho village in Greece (and another village near Suho, these two villages' dialect is closest to Old Bulgarian).
    The current shape of this language, the Suho dialect is Eastern Bulgarian although it has a large Western (Macedonian) Bg influence. It is much closer to the dialects spoken in neighborin THRACE (both in Bg and Greece) than to the codificed Western Bulgarian dialect ("Macedonian" "language") (it guess this ain't no secret code since all Bg can break it anytime they hear this "codified" "language", meaning they understand the "language", are there non-secret codes too? aren't codes supposed to be secret?  😮 )
    2. Bulgarian is closer to "OCS" than Macedonian, it is the only Slavic language to have kept Old Bulgarian sht and zhd as reflexs of the common Slavic tj and dj.
    3. Codifing a dialect doesn't equal creating a language/ethnicity. There are 2 Norwegian "languages", codified dialects and one Norwegian ethnicity. There may be a Macedonian nation but there is no Macedonian ethnicity and no Macedonian language.
    4. If "Old Church Slavonic" is Old Macedonian what is Ancient Macedonian (Pella Tablets and Hesychius glossary language)? Ancient Slavonic/Slavic??? what about proto-Slavic, common Slavic? Is that proto-Macedonian? Which Slavic language is older? Proto-Macedonian or Ancient Macedonian?  ;D
    I hear Greeks and Albanians are selling logic cheaply lately. Go buy some, "Macedonian" "linguists"!
    The same for Serb and Croat "linguists". Go buy some! And then some more, and then some more again  ;D
    Love you, you "scientists"  :-*

    image

    #427751

    Anonymous

    Simple answer to this question: Macedonians are Bulgarians, but they will never admit it. They rather be considered Serbs than Bulgarians, but none of them realizes that they actually walk&live on Bulgarian land (it has been Bulgarian for longer than it has been theirs)!

    #427758

    Anonymous

    Citing Wikipedia: “The Cyrillic script came to dominate Glagolitic in the 12th century. The literature produced in the Old Bulgarian language soon spread north and became the lingua franca of the Balkans and Eastern Europe, where it came to also be known as Old Church Slavonic.”
    As much as I know after Bulgaria accepted Christianity there was need for alphabet so that the Bible can be translated or something like that.. That’s why the Glagolitic and later the Cyrillic scripts were made.

    #427871

    Anonymous

    Technically speaking, the Glagolitic was created a few years (just a couple years, actually) before the conversion of Bulgaria to Christianity, due to the request of the Velikomoravian knyaz Rostislav for the Byzantines to send a mission of their own to Great Moravia. This was in 863, a rather complicated time, during which the Germans and their ally knyaz Boris I of Bulgaria were (again) fighting Velikomoravia (modern Slovakia), which itself saw Byzantium as a potential ally.
    Hence, the two Byzantine brothers from Thessaloniki (whether their mother was Bulgarian, as their Life claims, or not, is irrelevant – they were more than clearly in Byzantine service) created the Glagolitic with Great Moravia in mind. Only after Methodius’ death and the following German persecution did his Bulgarian disciples (and probably most of his other Slavic disciples, including his Moravian successor Gorazd) return to Bulgaria and bring the Slavic writings here, where they eventually found a most fertile soil.
    And while St. Kliment of Ohrid is indeed often accredited with devising the Cyrillic alphabet, it seems more likely that he actually created an easier to write form of the Glagolitic script, the so-called Rounded Glagolitic (I think that’s the same kind which the Croats used until the 18th century or so), which is exactly what his Life says. As for the Cyrillic – considering its oldest finds are from the area of the Preslav Literary School, which itself was traditionally more inclined towards it (while the Ohrid Literary School kept using Glagolitic for a few centuries longer, until the early 13th century or so) and considering the Cyrillic script is obviously based on the Greek one, I think it’s more likely that the Cyrillic script was devised either by St. Naum or, more likely, by some of the disciples or clerics who had spent time or received their education in Constantinople. Besides Tsar Simeon the Great, it also seems likely that f.e. Yoan Exarch had also studied in Tsarigrad (and potentially a few other notable figures as well), and there’s also the report of those disciples of St. Methodius, who were originally sold to slavery in Venice, but were bought by a Byzantine noble there, sent to Constantinople and after awhile most of them were allowed to go to Bulgaria, where they surely would have taken part in the active cultural life of the country.
    Anyway, the Glagolitic alphabet was created with Velikomoravia in mind (though it’s not the script itself that’s most important in all of this – the deeply Christian symbolic meaning of the Glagolitic script itself hints at the motives and purpose of it, whereas the Cyrillic is much less religious in character; hence the irony in modern retrospect of Chernorizets Hrabar’s claim that the Slavic letters are holier than the Greek), though its seed managed to find good ground only in Bulgaria (and from there – to other places as well, like the aforementioned Croatia), it was eventually simplified with a new, easier to write form in the Ohrid School, while the Preslav School “simplified” it by largely replacing it with derivatives of the Greek alphabet, which had its own century-old tradition in Bulgaria. Eventually, this Cyrillic script became much more popular than the Glagolitic script, which it replaced in a couple of centuries, and we’re still writing on it to this day (though with several further waves of redactions, of course, the most influential of which is probably Peter the Great’s “civil script” and, respectively, its cursive form). While it’s interesting to note that Moravia (Slovakia) nowadays uses the Latin alphabet instead, which I find somewhat ironic, considering they could’ve become the cultural and spiritual centre of the Slavic world.

    #427881

    Anonymous

    A people cannot become the cultural center of anything unless they also become the political and military center.

    #427949

    Anonymous

    Cyril and Methodius invented the Glagolitic alphabet. This is evident from the fact that the Glagolitic applied some letters from letters to North Africa, where they have been in service for some time. Azbuka letter was actually from the pre-historical era Slovenian literacy and not based on the alphabet, particularly because there are characters that are not in the alphabet. Later, the Slovenian tribes adjusted their azbuku languages and today has a bunch of special azbuka for various Slovenian languages.

    #427967

    Anonymous

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4f/IndoEuropeanTree.svg/2000px-IndoEuropeanTree.svg.png

    Bulgaria after the Treaty of San Stefano

    Where is Macedonia… Old Macedonia… Old Macedonian?!?

    “Macedonia most commonly refers to:

    Republic of Macedonia, country in southeastern Europe
    Macedonia (Greece), region of Northern Greece
    Macedonia (region), region covering the above, as well as parts of Bulgaria, Albania, Kosovo and Serbia
    Macedonia (ancient kingdom), also known as Macedon, the kingdom of Alexander the Great”
    ^- now here we can talk about ancient Macedonian

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