Viewing 15 posts - 31 through 45 (of 62 total)
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  • #384229

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Were Akadians speaking semitic or isolated language?

    Semitic. Semitic languages are also fusional by their structure.

    #384230

    Anonymous

    Now one more thing combined with SF consipracy theories.

    1)Most of Indo-European theories suggest a god Pantheon of several Gods fighting the Giants. It's always the same fight that happenes, and it's an everlasting circle i.e. the repeated happening. Norse Paganism calls it Ragnarok, but all IE have a name for the battle.
    [img width=541 height=700]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ELc77USmeuY/Tcr5QGot2QI/AAAAAAAAA6w/LISkHDWtbi0/s1600/thor-movie.jpg” />
    (indo-European Gods fighting Giants, always the same pattern in all IE faiths)

    2)Abrahamic faiths – In Sumerian writings found in old Sumerian cities they speak of Anunnaki supreme beings but only one among them is a main god (Enlil) which would be an equivalen to Abrahamic concept of Gods who derived from it, fighting the lesser deities they created Igigi's that have rebelled (reminding of fallen Angels). The Anunnaki described by Summerians were human like but of Giant size compared to humans, at least double of our size. Most of Abrahamic faiths have roots in Sumerian era, or at least can be traced back to there.
    image
    (giant Anunnaki compared to Humans in relics found from Sumerian era)

    3) Rebelled Igigi against the Anunnaki.
    In Abrahamic faith (Anunnaki worshipping) concept of fallen Angels(Satan) rebelling to God(Anunnaki).
    In Indo-European faiths (Igigi worshipping) from their perspective the Gods rebelling against the Giants(Anunnaki). ["Zeus and other Gods rebelling against his creator/father Giant/Titan Cronos"]

    4) In Sumerian tablets it is written there was around 300 Igigis(lesser deities) in Heaven of Sumerian Gods that have rebelled. In Christianity and Judaism in Book of Enoch derived from old Babylonian religion(which is connected to Sumerians) it speaks of Angels who numbered a total of 200 to watch over humans but rebelled against the God. Same as Igigis work was replaced by Humans but rebelled and fought against the Anunnaki and mixed with humans [Indo-European Gods having numerous offspring with humans called Demi-gods, Hercules on example].

    5) It is said that Nibiru X planet comes close to earth every 3600 years and that's when the Anunnaki visit earth.
        *In Abrahamic faiths it is said that The God will return and judge. (giant Anunnaki revisiting earth) .
        *In Indo-European faiths it is said that the final battle against the Giants(Anunnaki) will happen again. In Norse Ragnarok.

    so that might imply that cycle, they are returning, IE people derive from the rebelled ones while Abrahamic faith people are the one worshiping Anunnaki.

    So we can as well trace that both precursors of Indo-European religions (European paganism, Hinduism, Budhhism) and Abrahamic faiths( Chistianity, Judism, Islam) have roots in geographically close area and might have originitad by same happenings i.e. the religions might have started as epochs of same thing that occurred in the area.

    Could we suggest the Indo-Europeans today worship as Gods the Igigi's that rebelled against the Giants (Anunnaki)? While Abrahamic faiths worship the Anunnaki as a supreme God that will return and judge all obedient people and banish fallen Angels (satan) referring to rebelled lesser deities Igigi?

    #384231

    Anonymous

    Well there is one main error in your text, you could not see Abrahamic religons as something derived fromMesopotamian religion. Abrhamic religions (also Abrahamism) are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham and recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him. The unifying characteristic of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is that all accept the tradition that one and onley God, who created world from nothin revealed himself to the patriarch Abraham. Somethimes you could find similar motives in Old Testament Relgion and Mesopotamian (acctually blend of Akadian and Sumerian religon, they coexisted). Old Testament God is Lord of History and Time, while Anunaki are subjugated to laws oof nature. Mesopotamian gods were seen as high-up masters who had to be obeyed and feared, as opposed to loved and adored, while in Abrachamic religions God is transcedent, eternal and not controlled at all by part of creation and omnipotent.

    Well to add something more:

    There are no specific written records explaining Mesopotamian religious cosmology that survive to us today. Nonetheless, modern scholars have examined various accounts, and created what is believed to be an at least partially accurate depiction of Mesopotamian cosmology, so we could not rush in such bold statments about that religion.
    Concerning IE religions, giants exist in Scandinavian mythology and Greek, and story is essentially different.

    Concerning pressumed influence on Indo-Europeans, I think that Proto-Indo-Europeans allready separated before Sumerian civilisation was blended.

    #384232

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well there is one main error in your text, you could not see Abrahamic religons as something derived fromMesopotamian religion. Abrhamic religions (also Abrahamism) are the monotheistic faiths emphasizing and tracing their common origin to Abraham and recognizing a spiritual tradition identified with him. The unifying characteristic of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is that all accept the tradition that one and onley God, who created world from nothin revealed himself to the patriarch Abraham. Somethimes you could find similar motives in Old Testament Relgion and Mesopotamian (acctually blend of Akadian and Sumerian religon, they coexisted). Old Testament God is Lord of History and Time, while Anunaki are subjugated to laws oof nature. Mesopotamian gods were seen as high-up masters who had to be obeyed and feared, as opposed to loved and adored, while in Abrachamic religions God is transcedent, eternal and not controlled at all by part of creation and omnipotent.

    Well to add something more:

    There are no specific written records explaining Mesopotamian religious cosmology that survive to us today. Nonetheless, modern scholars have examined various accounts, and created what is believed to be an at least partially accurate depiction of Mesopotamian cosmology, so we could not rush in such bold statments about that religion.
    Concerning IE religions, giants exist in Scandinavian mythology and Greek, and story is essentially different.

    this:

    Although it mostly died out 1600 to 1700 years ago, Mesopotamian religion has still had an influence on the modern world, predominantly because Biblical mythology that is today found in Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Mandeanism shares some overlapping consistency with ancient Mesopotamian myths, in particular the Creation Myth, the Garden of Eden, The Great Flood, Tower of Babel and Biblical characters such as Nimrod and Lilith (the Assyrian Lilitu). In addition the story of Moses' origins shares a similarity with that of Sargon of Akkad, and the Ten Commandments mirror Assyrian-Babylonian legal codes to some degree.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_mythology

    as far as i know these myths are some of the foundations of Christianity and Judaism, it's essential stories and they originate in mesopotamian religions which in turn derive from old Sumerian ones. Before these Babylonian and Sumerian myths there is no other Biblical myths, they're Abrahamic faith starts yet they are drawn from Mesopotamian religions. Too add Book of Enoch is as well derived from Babylonian/Sumerian religion. As far as Monotheism, it's just an evolution of following one polytheistic faith, as the main pantheon god becoming the supreme and most dominant one and turning from polytheistic into a monotheism faith, so mono/poly structure isn't really saying much especially when talking about happenings so old.

    As for the IE religions and giants. Zeus fights his father Titan Cronos (his Creator) to imprison him so he could rule the world, while in Norse on example Odin kills giant Ymir to Create the world and rule it. However both have a similar Indo-European pattern of Gods fighting other high deities so they could rule. In Hindu Rig Veda it is Indra (equivalent of Thor, Perun etc.) that slays a high deity Vritra (dragon equivalent of Titan/Giant) so Indra could rule.

    Quote:
    Concerning pressumed influence on Indo-Europeans, I think that Proto-Indo-Europeans allready separated before Sumerian civilisation was blended.

    It could be but it doesn't have to mean IE faiths pre-date the happenings in Sumeria.

    #384233

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yeah but Abrahamic faith is younger thus could be just something that evolved from it.

    As far as i see it writes this:

    A good example of this is the flood story, Abrahamic religions, Ancient Greeks, Mesopotamians and and I think Assyrians have their own version of the flood story. The most famous though is the Christian one (Noah's Ark).

    #384234

    Anonymous

    As i was told Sumerians are not Semitic neither is their religion Abrahamic. Anyway original non-Abrahamic Semitic faiths were polytheistic very similar to those of Indo-europeans. Thats why during expansion of Roman Empire various oriental cults like Egyptian cults had no problem expanding into other parts of Roman Empire since people could not see any major differance between Roman or "Semitic" Gods.

    As for the giants king David also fights giant Goliath. :D

    image

    Quote:
    A good example of this is the flood story, Abrahamic religions, Ancient Greeks, Mesopotamians and and I think Assyrians have their own version of the flood story. The most famous though is the Christian one (Noah's Ark).

    Flood stories are worldwide and are known even among Native Americans. I have posted Slovene version few days ago. :D

    #384235

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    As far as i see it writes this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesopotamian_mythology

    as far as i know these myths are some of the foundations of Christianity and Judaism, it's essential stories and they originate in mesopotamian religions which in turn derive from old Sumerian ones.

    Well, as I allready pointed there is similarity in literary maner, sometimes even in plot, but there is one essential difference. And it is sense of written. There is similarity of form not similarity of teching.
    Ancient Near Eastern mythologies, classical creation myths in Greek mythology envision the creation of the world as resulting from the actions of a god or gods upon already-existing primeval matter, known as chaos. That is what Panbabylonism failed to see.
    In Bible we have:

    "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Genesis (1:1-2)

    God created world, (time as part of that created world)

    Enuma-Eliš goes:

    When the sky above was not named, and the earth beneath did not yet bear a name, and the primeval Apsû, who begat them,

    Situation is similar with other mentioned stories.

    You could see similarities and differences. Akin to that is when in 4th centuries Church fathers and Greek philosopher polemized about Divine nature of Chrisitanity, both were using Neo-Platonist terminology Chrsitians to express Christian Theology Greek philosophers to express their own ideas.

    #384236

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, as I allready pointed there is similarity in literary maner, sometimes even in plot, but there is one essential difference. And it is sense of written. There is similarity of form not similarity of teching.
    Ancient Near Eastern mythologies, classical creation myths in Greek mythology envision the creation of the world as resulting from the actions of a god or gods upon already-existing primeval matter, known as chaos. That is what Panbabylonism failed to see.
    In Bible we have:
    God created world, (time as part of that created world)

    Enuma-Eliš goes:
    Situation is similar with other mentioned stories.

    You could see similarities and differences. Akin to that is when in 4th centuries Church fathers and Greek philosopher polemized about Divine nature of Chrisitanity, both were using Neo-Platonist terminology Chrsitians to express Christian Theology Greek philosophers to express their own ideas.

    The Eridu Genesis is a Sumerian text. It covers the creation of the universe, world, invention of cities and the flood.

    #384237

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    As i was told Sumerians are not Semitic neither is their religion Abrahamic.

    Who said they were? as far as we know no one knows what exactly where they anyway. That doesn't imply thought that most of the later Abrahamic and IE religions don't follow the happenings that could have occurred in Sumeria.

    #384238

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    The Eridu Genesis is a Sumerian text. It covers the creation of the universe, world, invention of cities and the flood.

    Eridu Genesis is incomplete and it is Babyiloonian text in Sumerian language. Nevertheless, even with similarites, that does not mean Old Testament religion is derived from Mesopotamian. Similar stories, similar motives, literary borowings, but again completly different theology. Mesopotamian myth shows their Gods living in ways of humans and concerned because overpopulation of Earth, Biblical story shows that only people faithfull to God will survive. Again essential difference.

    #384240

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    As for the IE religions and giants. Zeus fights his father Titan Cronos (his Creator) to imprison him so he could rule the world, while in

    Well first Tiatns were not smae as Gigants. Cronos imprisoned his brothers Gigants (born from blood of his father). Furthermore, niether of three sicessive  supreme gods of Greeks Uran, Cronos and Zeus was not seen as creator.  Uranos and Gea were born from prexsitent Chaos. Gigants and Olympian gods wged war after fight with Titans and Heracles was that who helped Olympians.
    This is what most sources agree.

    #384242

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well in most cases it would be like that but when one religion has 5/6 of it's main events/stories same as a chronicled and written religion in it's proximity that predates the first one then it does mean that it is derived from it.

    You measured so you know ratio? Point is that literary form of sacred texts of some religion is not basis of that religion. What matters in religon is its teaching.

    Quote:
    By your logic neither would Christianity and Islam be of same root because they have too many differences however due to writings we know their same root.

    That is rather simplified point of wiew. There is no genetical conectio between Christianity and Islam, so we could speak of same root. Judaism and Christianity are geneticaly related. Both are derived from Old Testament religion. Islam is founded on itsown interpretation of Judeo-Christian legacy, and there is no direct connection betwen it and previous two religions.

    Quote:
    Finally Judaism in it's early ages was a both monotheistic and polytheistic religion, undetermined i.e. in-between, so that again you have dismissed with your crude analyses. Besides i find it hard to believe 6 main stories of Abrahamic faiths and Sumerians/Babylonian/Mesopotamian writings being just a mere coincidence.

    You obviously did not read what was written. Writers of Bible used textual motives from folk stories in Middle East (whic originated in Mesopotamia) to write their own cosmology, which, while sharing motivs with Mesopotamian myths, shows completely different theological outlook.

    Nicene creed starts:

    We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

    not "We believe that there were water and sky, that languages were separated at Babylonian tower and that there was flod".

    Quote:
    Finally Judaism in it's early ages was a both monotheistic and polytheistic religion, undetermined i.e. in-between, so that again you have dismissed with your crude analyses.

    This was another crude simplification. In early Hebrew kingdom there were two religous movements: Monotheistic and polythesitic.There was clear distinction between them, Old Testament prophets are preaching against idolatry and refuse any religious connection with their polytheistic compatriots. Again essential thing to determine religion are its teachings.

    Quote:
    Okey this is starting to be funny, of course it's not literally equal to a detail. Neither is Thor and Perun equal to detail but does it mean they aren't portraiting the same role? Of course they aren't same, but they represent the same deities same as Titan Cronos and it's Titans and Jountheimr Giants in Norse faiths. Or are you implying to me then that Indo-European religions aren't connected then?

    Well you failed to see my point. Your theory is that Lessre gods rebelled against gigantic senior gods, and you stated Cronos and Ttians are examples of such gigantic senior gods. Descriptions from ancient Greek sources contradicts such interpretation of matters. And I just pointed details in wich that contradiction was shown.

    #384243

    Anonymous

    I dont undestand this. Semitic faiths excluding Jewish have multiple God's like IE's and as i said Romans had no problems embracing those Gods since they were near identical. Anyway;

    In Ugaritic texts, Yam's special enemy Hadad is also known as the "king of heaven" and the "first born son" of El, whom ancient Greeks identified with their god Cronus, just as Baal was identified with Zeus, Yam with Poseidon and Mot with Hades. Yam wished to become the Lord god in his place. In turns the two beings kill each other, yet Hadad is resurrected and Yam also returns. Some authors have suggested that these tales reflect the experience of seasonal cycles in the Levant.

    #384244

    Anonymous

    Povhec abrahamic doesnt mean semitic faith. polytheism was common among semites as well.
    btw el means god or so in semitic languages. i think arab allah is related.

    #384245

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Povhec abrahamic doesnt mean semitic faith. polytheism was common among semites as well.
    btw el means god or so in semitic languages. i think arab allah is related.

    Dude thats what i have said. :)

    Quote:
    Anyway original non-Abrahamic Semitic faiths were polytheistic very similar to those of Indo-europeans.
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