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  • #384821

    Anonymous

    Does anyone know the etymology of Porijekla?

    #384822

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Does anyone know the etymology of Porijekla?

    I would say from po + rěka (flow), from where 'something' flows.

    #384823

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Does anyone know the etymology of Porijekla?

    Well, I dont have Serbian etymological dictionary with me, but I think поријекло is derived from родити, пород.

    #384824

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, I dont have Serbian etymological dictionary with me, but I think поријекло is derived from родити, пород.

    Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be Porodstv(o/a) rather than porijekla then? Where did the Rijekla part come from?

    Quote:
    I would say from po + rěka (flow), from where 'something' flows.

    It means origin(s) though, so what would flowing mean in reference to that?

    #384825

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Wouldn't it make more sense for it to be Porodstv(o/a) rather than porijekla then? Where did the Rijekla part come from?

    It means origin(s) though, so what would flowing mean in reference to that?

    It does mean origins, but also source of something. From where 'something' descends or flows. In origin, from where your blood flows, as an example.

    #384826

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, I dont have Serbian etymological dictionary with me, but I think поријекло is derived from родити, пород.

    Немаш ти, имам ја :)

    An etymological dictionary of Croatian or Serbian language, Petar Skok – 1971 (PDF)


      [li]

    porěklo n (Vuk, Vojvodina) = porijeklo (pseudojekavizam) < stcslav. poreklo, odatle posuđeno rum. poreda = (metateza) polecră, »1° cognomen, 2° origó«, s promjenom prefiksa podřeklo n = podřeklo n (Kosmet) = podriklo i unakrstavanjem sa říjeti (v.) podrijetlo (Vuk.) Prema iteratīvu ricatı (v.) sa » mjesto e podritolica (Mostar) i podrilo (18. v.), posuđeno i u rum. policră (metateza r — I > I — r) = porigla. Za unakrštanje sa říjeti upor. dubrovačko podrijet í »isto«. Nalazi se  još u bug. poreklo n »Spitzname, Beiname, prekor, prozvišče«. Južnoslavenska izvedenica s pomoću -lo od prefiksalne složenice poreći, iterativ poricati, stcslav. paresti »dicere, incusare, vituperare«. Promjena prefiksa izazvana je promjenom značenja toga glagola u značenju »nijekati«. Prefiks pod- izražava potajnost (podmititi), kako se i daju nadimci.[/li]

    #384827

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Немаш ти, имам ја :)

    An etymological dictionary of Croatian or Serbian language, Petar Skok – 1971 (PDF)


      [li]

    porěklo n (Vuk, Vojvodina) = porijeklo (pseudojekavizam) < stcslav. poreklo, odatle posuđeno rum. poreda = (metateza) polecră, »1° cognomen, 2° origó«, s promjenom prefiksa podřeklo n = podřeklo n (Kosmet) = podriklo i unakrstavanjem sa říjeti (v.) podrijetlo (Vuk.) Prema iteratīvu ricatı (v.) sa » mjesto e podritolica (Mostar) i podrilo (18. v.), posuđeno i u rum. policră (metateza r — I > I — r) = porigla. Za unakrštanje sa říjeti upor. dubrovačko podrijet í »isto«. Nalazi se  još u bug. poreklo n »Spitzname, Beiname, prekor, prozvišče«. Južnoslavenska izvedenica s pomoću -lo od prefiksalne složenice poreći, iterativ poricati, stcslav. paresti »dicere, incusare, vituperare«. Promjena prefiksa izazvana je promjenom značenja toga glagola u značenju »nijekati«. Prefiks pod- izražava potajnost (podmititi), kako se i daju nadimci.[/li]

    So it is from порећи, (OCS: порещи)

    #384828

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    So it is from порећи, (OCS: порещи)

    Meaning deny? Hmm can't find any connection towards the present meaning. Croats have podrijeti as in 'confer origin of', and also podrijetlo (porijeklo) sharing the same etymology according to Skok, порећи would rather be a newer than an older construct.

    rěklo, rijetlo, ricati – I would interpret as source/sourcing, thus the construct po (negation) + ricati, builds poricati = to negate the source, namely deny something.
    Pod-rěklo as well as Pod-rijetlo – however builds the construct 'from which source'. In Serbian it is common to lose the unpronounced letters, thus Po(d)rěklo > Porěklo

    #384829

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Meaning deny? Hmm can't find any connection towards the present meaning. Croats have podrijeti as in 'confer origin of', and also podrijetlo (porijeklo) sharing the same etymology according to Skok, порећи would rather be a newer than an older construct.

    rěklo, rijetlo, ricati – I would interpret as source/sourcing, thus the construct po (negation) + ricati, builds poricati = to negate the source, namely deny something.
    Pod-rěklo as well as Pod-rijetlo – however builds the construct 'from which source'. In Serbian it is common to lose the unpronounced letters, thus Po(d)rěklo > Porěklo

    No. Serbian ortography (and Croatian) is phonological it is truth, but pod is somewhat different than po. It is allreead written in that dictionary:

    Promjena prefiksa izazvana je promjenom značenja toga glagola u značenju »nijekati«. Prefiks pod- izražava potajnost (podmititi), kako se i daju nadimci.

    #384830

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    No. Serbian ortography (and Croatian) is phonological it is truth, but pod is somewhat different than po. It is allreead written in that dictionary:

    po- as negation is rarely used; po-niknuti = to spring, po-četi = to start etc. more often. I cannot follow his interpretation, since I do not see it as plausible.

    #384831

    Anonymous

    Po –  in Polish it means "after". It couldn't have similar meaning? So: after – origin?

    #384832

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Po –  in Polish it means "after". It couldn't have similar meaning? So: after – origin?

    It has multiple meanings, but often 'to' start (po-četi), drink (po-piti), eat (po-jesti). Rarely a negation, or almost non existent.

    po-rijeklo – the most plausible interpretation is, 'to source from' – which is also it's meaning, namely origin.

    #384833

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Rarely a negation, or almost non existent.

    Po is not negation, порећи was  originaly "to say, to speak, to talk". Over the years meaning was changed. For God's sake read that dictionary. (Latin dicere). Поријекло is derived from original meaning.

    #384834

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Po is not negation, порећи was  originaly "to say, to speak, to talk". Over the years meaning was changed. For God's sake read that dictionary. (Latin dicere). Поријекло is derived from original meaning.

    I do not understand latin nor am I educated in OCS, if you post the term that means 'deny' in the common language, but mean something totally different with it, show some decency and explain your argument.

    #384835

    Anonymous

    Well, of course, but there is this:

    Promjena prefiksa izazvana je promjenom značenja toga glagola u značenju »nijekati«.

    ;)

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