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  • #346897

    Anonymous

    Poroshenko, Klitchko and National Guard is trying to finish what what Janukovič and Berkud attempted and failed. They are clearing Euro-Majdan protest. Barricades are under attack again and burning. Several people were arrested and others were wounded.

    Irony is that 1th and 2nd brigades of National Guard which were given task to clear Majdan are ex-Majdan fighters themselves.

    Protesters fulfilled their role and are becoming obstacle for new regime and its backers now.

    What a bad circus.

    http://www.veooz.com/news/VHOSpv8.html

    http://www.kyivpost.com/content/kyiv/radio-free-europeradio-liberty-moves-to-dismantle-kyiv-protest-camp-spark-clashes-359738.html

    #434351

    Anonymous

    It's getting extremely confusing to know who is who…

    #434352

    Anonymous

    It's easy for a revolution to be hijacked by special interests. They are the ones with a clear plan. Which makes me doubt the effectiveness of grass-roots revolutions as means of restoring order to society. You know what they say about fishing in murky water.

    #434353

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    It's easy for a revolution to be hijacked by special interests. They are the ones with a clear plan.

    Especially if "special interests" are behind that revolution in the first place.

    #434354

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Especially if "special interests" are behind that revolution in the first place.

    It's not cost efficient to manufacture unrest where there's none.

    #434355

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    It's not cost efficient to manufacture unrest where there's none.

    There is unrest everywhere. You will always find people who are dissatisfied for some reason or another. Ethnic or sexual minority, social class, bored students, followers of some religion, you name it. No society is homogeneous, there are always some divisions to exploit if you have resources and skill.

    When you print money for rest of the world, resources are usually not a problem and as for the skill, lets say there is country which is perfecting technology of colour revolutions for at last 30-40 years.

    True, divisions to exploit are sometimes less and sometimes more extreme. But in Ukraine divisions are large and obvious and since independence are getting only worst. Ukraine is patient par excellence for exploiting and manipulating internal differences.

    #434356

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There is unrest everywhere. You will always find people who are dissatisfied for some reason or another. Ethnic or sexual minority, social class, bored students, followers of some religion, you name it. No society is homogeneous, there are always some divisions to exploit if you have resources and skill.

    That's a topic for another thread entirely. I meant large number of people dissatisfied with their government specifically – fringe groups do not qualify.

    When you print money for rest of the world, resources are usually not a problem and as for the skill, lets say there is country which is perfecting technology of colour revolutions for at last 30-40 years.

    I think you're giving them too much credit.

    True, divisions to exploit are sometimes less and sometimes more extreme. But in Ukraine divisions are large and obvious and since independence are getting only worst. Ukraine is patient par excellence for exploiting and manipulating internal differences.

    One of the first things the post-maidan government did was revoke the status of regional languages as official. At the time I thought that was suspicious. Could've been incompetence or it could've been a move designed to provoke a civil war. Except the beneficiary of such a war would be the Kremlin. It would've been in the US's interest to keep Ukraine whole and peaceful (especially if they could deny Russia its naval bases in the Crimea).

    #434357

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    One of the first things the post-maidan government did was revoke the status of regional languages as official. At the time I thought that was suspicious. Could've been incompetence or it could've been a move designed to provoke a civil war. Except the beneficiary of such a war would be the Kremlin. It would've been in the US's interest to keep Ukraine whole and peaceful (especially if they could deny Russia its naval bases in the Crimea).

    So you think Kremlin is behind "post Majdan" government?

    #434358

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    So you think Kremlin is behind "post Majdan" government?

    Would be too elaborate a scheme. Probably just agents. Only peace will enable us to see who's who in the ukrainian government and parliament, pity we can't have that eh?
    Considering what's happening on the ground though, I do think Moscow is enacting an old plan from the 90s, of annexing Ukraine or most of it.

    #434359

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Would be too elaborate a scheme. Probably just agents. Only peace will enable us to see who's who in the ukrainian government and parliament, pity we can't have that eh?
    Considering what's happening on the ground though, I do think Moscow is enacting an old plan from the 90s, of annexing Ukraine or most of it.

    Given ban of Russian language was enacted by majority of parliament, at that time overrun by thugs from Majdan that would mean that most of the Svoboda, Fatherland and UNA-UNSO PMs in Ukrainian parliament were Moscow agents. Plus of course Right Sector thugs who according to reports were ensuring "security" of parliament at that time.

    #434360

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Given ban of Russian language was enacted by majority of parliament, at that time overrun by thugs from Majdan that would mean that most of the Svoboda, Fatherland and UNA-UNSO PMs in Ukrainian parliament were Moscow agents. Plus of course Right Sector thugs who according to reports were ensuring "security" of parliament at that time.

    I find it doubtful that Right Sector could've intimidated parliament into it, and that still leaves the question of "why?".

    Speaking of thugs though, Maidan protestors were mostly unarmed, whereas the separatist militias came equipped with heavy artillery right off the bat. Wish I had a Grad launcher in my backyard …

    #434361

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I find it doubtful that Right Sector could've intimidated parliament into it, and that still leaves the question of "why?".

    That's still leaves half of Ukrainian parliament -several dozens of PMs mainly from Majdan parties as Kremlin agents in your opinion.

    Quote:
    Speaking of thugs though, Maidan protestors were mostly unarmed, whereas the separatist militias came equipped with heavy artillery right off the bat. Wish I had a Grad launcher in my backyard …

    I newer saw reports of militias being equipped with heavy artillery right off the bat. Can you point me to some?

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