- This topic has 9 voices and 17 replies.
- November 25, 2013 at 7:59 pm #345978
I'm wondering if you foaks on this forum are familiar with the newest language model named Mapping the origins and expansion of the Indo-European language family by Bouckaert, R., Lemey, P., Dunn, M., Greenhill, S. J., Alekseyenko, A. V., Drummond, A. J., Gray, R. D., Suchard, M. A., & Atkinson, Q. D. (2012). Science, 337:957–960
As far as i now, it's the most debated and argued study (model) of the past two years among the linguists. Of course we are for the most part interested in Slavic History (protoSlavic language, Old Curch Slavonic). This computer model claims that PIE language originates from Anatolia (Anatolian theory) rather from Pontic steppe (Kurgan hypothesis).
According to this computer made model, protoSlavic derived from PIE language about 3700 BC on the Panonian plain (Danube) and was the first language to separate itself from PIE language. It's actualy a confirmation of the Danube basin hypothesis (Slavic origin homeland). Does anyone on this forum has an opinion on this study? Mine is – regarding Slavic languages – the model is quite correct!
Graphic animation of the model: Mapping Indo-European language expansion
Original homepage: http://language.cs.auckland.ac.nz
Critic of the theory/model:
http://www.geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/linguistic-geography/103-errors-in-mapping-indo-european-languages-in-bouckaert-et-al-part-iNovember 25, 2013 at 9:10 pm #424177
AnonymousQuote:According to this computer made model, protoSlavic derived from PIE language about 3700 BC on the Panonian plain (Danube) and was the first language to separate itself from PIE language. It's actualy a confirmation of the Danube basin hypothesis (Slavic origin homeland). Does anyone on this forum has an opinion on this study? Mine is – regarding Slavic languages – the model is quite correct!
I know Jernej Kopitar was proposing Slavic Danube basin origin theory. I dunno what to say. I have no clue. But i mostly consider Kurgan theory when i imagine early PIE's. Dunno why.November 26, 2013 at 1:19 am #424178
Those authors are wrong on so many levels, you can find a lot more about their mistakes:
Mismodeling Indo-European Origins: The Assault On Historical Linguistics | GeoCurrents
As for learning about the PIE language, I would recommend to start from
this book (which won the Society for American Archaeology's 2010 Book Award):
[David W. Anthony, The Horse, the Wheel, and Language]
https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9561422W/The_Horse_the_Wheel_and_LanguageNovember 26, 2013 at 2:35 am #424179
Interesting stuff, prehistory and linguistics is. I thought that most of the archaeology pointed towards the Ukrainian/Russian steppes being the homeland of the original Indo-Europeans. At least that is what I have read, and don't think I am as up to date in these fields as you folks seem to be. I have also read about a controversial proposed linguistic super-group, called Nostratic Languages, which is meant to be the language family and language(Proto-Nostratic) which Indo European, and several other language families derive from. Some even say it is related to the language Neanderthals spoke. Look it up, the theoretical reconstructions are some of the most bizarre things you will ever hear.November 26, 2013 at 3:25 am #424180
Anatolian hypothesis raises many questions but gives no answers, it has a lot of holes in it and it leads us to many dead ends.
The wagon/wheel vocabulary shows that late PIE was spoken certainly after 4000 BCE, and probably after 3500 BCE.
What's interesting is the fact that the Anatolian branch doesn't contain a convincing wheeled-vehicle vocabulary. The PIE language community, on the other hand, contained 5 different terms, 4 of them with o-stems that appeared only during the latter end of the PIE period.
The PIE homeland was, most probably, in the Pontic-Caspian steppes, that hypothesis is constantly getting strengthened with new evidence and discoveries.November 26, 2013 at 1:50 pm #424181
I have gotten quite a bit behind on my PIE studies. I also go along with the Pontic-Caspian Steppe origins theory. Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I will have to try and find myself a copy.November 26, 2013 at 2:06 pm #424182
AnonymousQuote:I have gotten quite a bit behind on my PIE studies. I also go along with the Pontic-Caspian Steppe origins theory. Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I will have to try and find myself a copy.
The link I posted yesterday will lead you to a pdf of the book:
https://ia601009.us.archive.org/28/items/horsewheelandlanguage/horsewheelandlanguage.pdfNovember 26, 2013 at 2:11 pm #424183
[img width=562 height=700]http://srhabay.wikispaces.com/file/view/Indoeuropean%2520language%2520family%2520tree.jpg/38912214/Indoeuropean%2520language%2520family%2520tree.jpg” />November 26, 2013 at 2:58 pm #424184
Awesome! Looks like I have some interesting reading in store for me!
My interest in PIE comes from my mixed ancestry. Being a Slavic, Celtic and Germanic mix, I have always looked for a link between my various ancestries. Going all the way back to the lowest common denominator seems to be the only way to do this.November 27, 2013 at 11:52 pm #424185
[img width=700 height=283]http://indo-european-migrations.scienceontheweb.net/IE_tree.gif” />Quote:
it's intresting how languages of completely different races have common roots (Uralic-Altaic with IE) and others of the same race (caucasian and IE) are completely unrelatedNovember 28, 2013 at 9:54 am #424186
Uralic evidence for the Indo-European homeland
http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/UralicEvidence.pdfNovember 29, 2013 at 4:18 am #424187
[Robert Stephen Paul Beekes, Comparative Indo European Linguistics: An Introduction, 353]
[img width=700 height=495]http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8083/e94l.png” />November 29, 2013 at 12:09 pm #424188
[img width=700 height=508]http://www.hjholm.de/IE%20SLRD-Baum%20%27hand%27.jpg” />November 29, 2013 at 9:20 pm #424189
the western (italic, Celtic and Greek), the Germanic, and the eastern group (balto-Slavic)
[img width=473 height=700]http://pages.uoregon.edu/l150web/pielang.gif” />December 10, 2013 at 1:46 pm #424190
[img width=700 height=513]http://bialczynski.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/kolebka-sc582owiac584szczyzny-1c1.jpg” />
Tadeusz Miller “3000 lat Państwa Polskiego”.
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