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  • #345978

    Anonymous

    I'm wondering if you foaks on this forum are familiar with the newest language model named Mapping the origins and expansion of the Indo-European language family by Bouckaert, R., Lemey, P., Dunn, M., Greenhill, S. J., Alekseyenko, A. V., Drummond, A. J., Gray, R. D., Suchard, M. A., & Atkinson, Q. D. (2012). Science, 337:957–960

    As far as i now, it's the most debated and argued study (model) of the past two years among the linguists. Of course we are for the most part interested in Slavic History (protoSlavic language, Old Curch Slavonic). This computer model claims that PIE language originates from Anatolia (Anatolian theory) rather from Pontic steppe (Kurgan hypothesis).

    According to this computer made model, protoSlavic derived from PIE language about 3700 BC on the Panonian plain (Danube) and was the first language to separate itself from PIE language. It's actualy a confirmation of the Danube basin hypothesis (Slavic origin homeland). Does anyone on this forum has an opinion on this study? Mine is – regarding Slavic languages – the model is quite correct!

    Graphic animation of the model: Mapping Indo-European language expansion
    Original homepage:  http://language.cs.auckland.ac.nz
    Critic of the theory/model:
    http://www.geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/linguistic-geography/the-consistently-incorrect-mapping-of-language-differentiation-in-bouckaert-et-al
    http://www.geocurrents.info/cultural-geography/linguistic-geography/103-errors-in-mapping-indo-european-languages-in-bouckaert-et-al-part-i

    #424177

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to this computer made model, protoSlavic derived from PIE language about 3700 BC on the Panonian plain (Danube) and was the first language to separate itself from PIE language. It's actualy a confirmation of the Danube basin hypothesis (Slavic origin homeland). Does anyone on this forum has an opinion on this study? Mine is – regarding Slavic languages – the model is quite correct!

    I know Jernej Kopitar was proposing Slavic Danube basin origin theory. I dunno what to say. I have no clue. :P But i mostly consider Kurgan theory when i imagine early PIE's. Dunno why. ;D

    #424178

    Anonymous

    Those authors are wrong on so many levels, you can find a lot more about their mistakes:
    Mismodeling Indo-European Origins: The Assault On Historical Linguistics | GeoCurrents

    As for learning about the PIE language, I would recommend to start from
    this book (which won the Society for American Archaeology's 2010 Book Award):

    [David W. Anthony, The Horse, the Wheel, and Language]
    https://openlibrary.org/works/OL9561422W/The_Horse_the_Wheel_and_Language

    #424179

    Anonymous

    Interesting stuff, prehistory and linguistics is. I thought that most of the archaeology pointed towards the Ukrainian/Russian steppes being the homeland of the original Indo-Europeans. At least that is what I have read, and don't think I am as up to date in these fields as you folks seem to be. I have also read about a controversial proposed linguistic super-group, called Nostratic Languages, which is meant to be the language family and language(Proto-Nostratic) which Indo European, and several other language families derive from. Some even say it is related to the language Neanderthals spoke. Look it up, the theoretical reconstructions are some of the most bizarre things you will ever hear.
    image

    #424180

    Anonymous

    Anatolian hypothesis raises many questions but gives no answers, it  has a lot of holes in it and it leads us to many dead ends.

    The wagon/wheel vocabulary shows that late PIE was spoken certainly after 4000 BCE, and probably after 3500 BCE.

    What's interesting is the fact that the Anatolian branch doesn't contain a convincing wheeled-vehicle vocabulary. The PIE language community, on the other hand, contained 5 different terms, 4 of them with o-stems that appeared only during the latter end of the PIE period.

    The PIE homeland was, most probably, in the Pontic-Caspian steppes, that hypothesis is constantly getting strengthened with new evidence and discoveries.

    image

    #424181

    Anonymous

    I have gotten quite a bit behind on my PIE studies. I also go along with the Pontic-Caspian Steppe origins theory. Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I will have to try and find myself a copy.

    #424182

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I have gotten quite a bit behind on my PIE studies. I also go along with the Pontic-Caspian Steppe origins theory. Thanks for the recommendation of the book. I will have to try and find myself a copy.

    You're welcome. =)
    The link I posted yesterday will lead you to a pdf of the book:
    https://ia601009.us.archive.org/28/items/horsewheelandlanguage/horsewheelandlanguage.pdf

    #424183

    Anonymous

    [img width=562 height=700]http://srhabay.wikispaces.com/file/view/Indoeuropean%2520language%2520family%2520tree.jpg/38912214/Indoeuropean%2520language%2520family%2520tree.jpg” />

    #424184

    Anonymous

    Awesome! Looks like I have some interesting reading in store for me!

    My interest in PIE comes from my mixed ancestry. Being a Slavic, Celtic and Germanic mix, I have always looked for a link between my various ancestries. Going all the way back to the lowest common denominator seems to be the only way to do this.

    #424185

    Anonymous

    [img width=700 height=283]http://indo-european-migrations.scienceontheweb.net/IE_tree.gif” />

    Quote:

    image

    it's intresting how languages of completely different races have common roots (Uralic-Altaic with IE) and others of the same race (caucasian and IE) are completely unrelated

    #424186

    Anonymous

    Uralic evidence for the Indo-European homeland
    http://www.elisanet.fi/alkupera/UralicEvidence.pdf

    #424187

    Anonymous

    [Robert Stephen Paul Beekes, Comparative Indo European Linguistics: An Introduction, 353]
    [img width=700 height=495]http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/8083/e94l.png” />

    #424188

    Anonymous

    [img width=700 height=508]http://www.hjholm.de/IE%20SLRD-Baum%20%27hand%27.jpg” />

    #424189

    Anonymous

    the western (italic, Celtic and Greek), the Germanic, and the eastern group (balto-Slavic)

    [img width=473 height=700]http://pages.uoregon.edu/l150web/pielang.gif” />

    #424190

    Anonymous

    [img width=700 height=513]http://bialczynski.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/kolebka-sc582owiac584szczyzny-1c1.jpg” />
    Tadeusz Miller “3000 lat Państwa Polskiego”.

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