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  • #345671

    Anonymous

    Thompson Bosna (2013)

    Pjesmo moja pjevat ću te tamo,
    tamo gdje je naša loza počela,
    staroj majci kolijevci Hrvata
    gdje se naša povijest krvlju pisala.

    Istina o Bosni kroz kanjone teče
    I mnoge njene tajne kriju stoljeća
    Od davnina na nju svak' juriša,
    ko da nije dosta snjegova i kiša.

    Sa svih strana svijeta
    dolazile tvrde sile mraka
    ko da narod tamo gine iz meraka.

    Jučer svetinja
    Danas raspeta
    Bosna ponosna, ranjena
    Tamo gdje sunce putuje
    Vjetar nosi glas, Bosna zove nas
    Tamo gdje sunce putuje
    tu me čekaj ti stara ljubavi.

    Kreni preko planina,
    Starom stazom djedova
    Bosna će ti reći sve,
    odakle nam prezime.

    Gledaj lijepu Lašvansku dolinu
    uvijek su je naša zvona budila,
    zlatna polja, našu Posavinu,
    grobovi su puni njenih sinova

    Sa svih strana svijeta
    dolazile tvrde sile mraka
    ko da narod tamo gine iz meraka.

    #420446

    Anonymous

    Bosna nije kolijevka Hrvata ali šta drugo očekivati od velikohrvata poput Thompsona…

    #420447

    Anonymous

    Nabijem ga na sto k….. i njegovu koljevku.

    #420448

    Anonymous

    But all opinions are welcome of course.  ;D

    #420449

    Anonymous

    Is this a patriotic Bosnian Croat song? Or a patriotic Croatian song?

    #420450

    Anonymous

    It is no Croat patriotic song.M.P. Thompson is an alcoholic and a cokehead who makes his living by singing crap like this to various weekend patriots world-wide.He is a laughing stock for most Croats in Croatia,except the fascistoid Bosnians who moved here in the nineties.A true Croatian patriot is ashamed when this guy is being connected with his patriotism,because ustaštvo and extremism isn't what means to be a Croatian patriot (a lot of us don't see a certain doctor from Konjic as a hero figure).

    #420451

    Anonymous

    Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

    #420452

    Anonymous

    Svevlad ,

    Actually , if you understand the words and the context of the song then its actually a Bosnian patriotic song from a non-hostile-to-Bosnia Croat perspective. I actually first heard this song at my Bosniak friend's house ( I don't really follow Thompson's music since he never apologized for repeating the despicable Jasenovac song.) In the broader context its a political statement but not against Bosniaks or Serbs or anyone in Bosnia but to the Croatian government not to forget about our people in BiH. There is no mention of Croatia in there.

    This line right here :

    Kreni preko planina,
    Starom stazom djedova
    Bosna će ti reći sve,
    odakle nam prezime.

    ^ It illustrates it's directed towards the Croatian government and people in general. 'Go across the mountains ( from Croatia to Bosnia) to the land of our grandfathers , Bosnia will tell you everything , where our family names come from .' It's estimated that around 1/3 or 1/4 of all Croats in Croatia today can trace their heritage back to Bosnian immigrants during the Turkish rule and thus Bosnian descendants  make up a large part of Croatia's own population. The song is aimed at reminding people of that and why we should still care about our people in Bosnia especially since Croatia moved on to the EU.

    It is no Croat patriotic song.M.P. Thompson is an alcoholic and a cokehead who makes his living by singing crap like this to various weekend patriots world-wide.He is a laughing stock for most Croats in Croatia,except the fascistoid Bosnians who moved here in the nineties.A true Croatian patriot is ashamed when this guy is being connected with his patriotism,because ustaštvo and extremism isn't what means to be a Croatian patriot (a lot of us don't see a certain doctor from Konjic as a hero figure).

    It's not a patriotic song about Croatia , that's true , but a lot of Croats can connect to it. Not every Croat is from the hills of Zagorje like you , there are a bunch of us all over the place and just because they live in a neighboring country doesn't make them any less Croat than you. I detect some of the Zagreb superiority complex from you which is sad. Last time I been to Croatia ( over a year ago) Thompson was no laughing stock and many people still enjoyed his music. And don't mix up Bosnian Croats with those Hercegovci from Mostar and Siroki Brijeg. Tons of Croats from Posavina and other parts of Bosnia live in Croatia today and these people not only fought for their lives in Bosnia but also fought for Croatia. A huge bulk of the volunteers to defend Croatia in 1991 came from Bosnia and all over the world   and not only from the hills of Zagorje. 
    I am also a critic of Thompson because I think he doesn't realize what influence he really has over a lot of young Croats. Do you have any evidence he is a crack head and alcoholic or is that just more negative media noise? Thompson says in one of his songs that he's not an Ustasha or a fascist but just a patriot but I don't think he can dismiss total responsibility for his fan base. No matter what he does , he will always be a celebrity representing Croats in the media and he should apologize for any offensive songs especially referring back to the Ustasha regime. This is why I don't listen to him anymore because he never manned up and took responsibility. Personally I don't think he's an extremist and I think he does good things for people ( He is the #1 celebrity in Croatia that donates the most to charity like orphanages and schools – do you see Severina doing that?) A man can say stupid things at times but I judge people by their actions.

    PS: In recent times I haven't heard such a well written song ( never mind the one line about Bosnian Croats) about Bosnia by anyone. And this guy isn't even Bosnian. Props to him for that.

    #420453

    Anonymous

    Most of Croats can’t relate to it,and being a speaker of kajkavian dialect doesn’t make one a Zagorec,nor from the hills.

    I detect some of the Zagreb superiority complex from you which is sad.

    Having to live here during the HDZ rule (which is a number one Bosnian party in Croatia) I have witnessed what Bosnians gave to Croatia.It is mostly organised crime,corruption,large scale nepotism (not so many Croats know what an oxymoron is,but thanks to bobans every Croat knows what nepotism is lol).There were more  Bosnians employed in the city services than everyone else (because they are “rođo” of someone’s aunt’s uncle’s boyfriend’s father’s third knee cousin from “down there”).
    Not even to mention the elections in Croatia where “last minute” votes from Bosnia,by people who do not even live here were deciding of our fate for the worse (fortunatelly HDZ f***ed up so badly in the main country that not even that could save them last time).Should I mention the mocking attitudes towards the native kajkavian dialect?

    Last time I been to Croatia ( over a year ago) Thompson was no laughing stock and many people still enjoyed his music. And don’t mix up Bosnian Croats with those Hercegovci from Mostar and Siroki Brijeg. Tons of Croats from Posavina and other parts of Bosnia live in Croatia today and these people not only fought for their lives in Bosnia but also fought for Croatia. A huge bulk of the volunteers to defend Croatia in 1991 came from Bosnia and all over the world   and not only from the hills of Zagorje.

    Well,I don’t know what kind of places you visit.He does have sympathisers among certain circles as I stated before.
    And no “bulk” of defenders came from Bosnia,but from all regions of Croatia,since bulk would imply majority,which isn’t true.

    He is a performer who is/was used by HDZ to rekindle those pre-election fires of vengeance and hatred among their most loyal voters,to whom most of Croats from BiH belong.He denies the allegations of Ustaše sympathising because it is illegal to do so,and it would cost him too much because he knows that he would lose the support of right-wing politicians who would be forced to disown him,because they would be forced to do so.

    P.S.-Most of prominent singers are engaged in some sort of humanitarian work,which most likelly means tax deductions.(Also not all people brag publicly about how “good” they are and how they help the needy).

    #420454

    Anonymous

    Most of Croats can't relate to it,and being a speaker of kajkavian dialect doesn't make one a Zagorec,nor from the hills.

    I don't see where you to get the authority to claim 'most of them.' Croats have always liked songs about Bosnia and Bosnian music. Are you aware the sheer turn out for Halid Beslic in Zagreb? I like the Kajkavian dialect and its fun to speak with my friends who speak it. I have no complexes about 'we are bigger Croats than you because we are from X place ' We're all one family. That's all the song is about when you break it down.

    Having to live here during the HDZ rule (which is a number one Bosnian party in Croatia) I have witnessed what Bosnians gave to Croatia.It is mostly organised crime,corruption,large scale nepotism (not so many Croats know what an oxymoron is,but thanks to bobans every Croat knows what nepotism is lol).There were more  Bosnians employed in the city services than everyone else (because they are "rođo" of someone's aunt's uncle's boyfriend's father's third knee cousin from "down there").

    Your confusing Hercegovci with Bosanci lol. Tudjman , a zagorec , handed the Hercegovci too much power. However , the majority of Croats from BiH are not Hercegovci but Bosanci they are just not as loud and privileged as the Hercegovci. The attitude , in general , of a Cro from Posavina , Vitez , and Mostar are very very different. 

    Not even to mention the elections in Croatia where "last minute" votes from Bosnia,by people who do not even live here were deciding of our fate for the worse (fortunatelly HDZ f***ed up so badly in the main country that not even that could save them last time).Should I mention the mocking attitudes towards the native kajkavian dialect?

    Again you're mostly talking about Hercegovci. I don't see how you fail to realize that Hercegovci are the only Croats from BiH. As I said before , I like the Kajkavian dialect but Hercegovci can be rude. I've been in America so long that I've developed a little American accent in my Croatian and some people in Mostar are brutal when it comes to teasing. But f*ck them , I don't take it personally. Hercegovci don't want to participate in Bosnia so they pretend as if their little region is part of Croatia already. In this respect they are a lot like Srbi but most of the Croats in Bosnia lived outside of Hercegovina.

    Well,I don't know what kind of places you visit.He does have sympathisers among certain circles as I stated before.
    And no "bulk" of defenders came from Bosnia,but from all regions of Croatia,since bulk would imply majority,which isn't true.

    I didn't say the majority but I said in proportion to their population a huge number came over to fight for Croatia even though technically Croatia wasn't their country. In other words they committed just as many sons to the front line as any other place in Croatia. And I've been all over both Bosnia and Hrvatska and Thompson is not a joke like you imply.

    He is a performer who is/was used by HDZ to rekindle those pre-election fires of vengeance and hatred among their most loyal voters,to whom most of Croats from BiH belong.He denies the allegations of Ustaše sympathising because it is illegal to do so,and it would cost him too much because he knows that he would lose the support of right-wing politicians who would be forced to disown him,because they would be forced to do so.

    Thompson isn't affiliated with the HDZ. He only does free performances at HSP functions. It's not illegal to have a positive opinion about the Ustase in Croatia as far as I know. You can't publish whatever but nobody is going to arrest you if you say something positive about Ustastvo. Its only illegal to use public funds to sponsor a minority party ( except the Serb parties , they are automatically given public funds by the Croatian constitution.)

    P.S.-Most of prominent singers are engaged in some sort of humanitarian work,which most likelly means tax deductions.(Also not all people brag publicly about how "good" they are and how they help the needy).

    Not really. Only a few give so much to charities let alone finance and supervise the building of orphanages and schools themselves. And as far as I know Thompson doesn't even brag about it , its not even on his web site AFAIK. You have to learn that indirectly.

    Your whole misconception comes with bad dealings with Hercegovci. To tell you the truth Hercegovci aren't even liked by Bosnian Croats all that much. They think they run everything and that all the Croats have to listen to them. This is why the main Croatian party in BiH is split into two factions plus all the other fractured Croat parties. Going back to the topic , the song isn't about fulfilling the wet dream of some Hercegovci , its not even about Hercegovina , its about Bosnia. 

    #420455

    Anonymous

    Another Balkan war, this time about the song  :P

    #420456

    Anonymous

    It’s very simple,most Croats like the songs from ther regions and about their regions.Halid is a Bosniak and somewhat of a legend in these parts,and he definitely doesn’t sing about nationalism/religion.As for the “bigger Croat than thou” it started with Bosnians moving here and talking crap,and Thompson was always the prefered musical backround of that sentiment.

    Well I didn’t see them segragating among themselves prior to the new government’s election.Ofc now it suits them to separate themselves when the political climate in the country has changed.These days I revel in finally getting to hear the beautiful accents of Croatia when I turn on the tv,opposed to “đe’s” slang of the previos outfit.
    I live in the eastern part of the town where most Bosnians settled,so I know where they are from.The place is dotted with Bosnian bars (where you can almost always find “Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara” song),to which I often went to drink while I was in my binge phase.

    Most that I encountered that mocked people were Bosnians,not Hercegovci.I don’t really have a problem since I speak the slang of the capitol in my day to day life,but I understand kajkavski very well since it was the dialect of my grandparents here in Prigorje,and is still the dialect of my mother’s side of family in Zagorje.Nothing disgusts me more than when a person from Zagorje comes to capitol and is being ridiculed for his heavy accent by some shepherd who came here twenty years ago.

    He is affiliated with chauvinist nationalism,he was also summoned as a witness in a Sanader trial where he denied taking money from them (truth of which is hard to get to the bottom of due to lack of evidence).
    He is the only Croatian musician that gathers so many of fascist insignia on his concerts.He denies sympathies for Ustaše because it would hurt his money making .Especially abroad in the countries like Germany,Australia or Canada where he makes alot of money singing to the diaspora,and Ustaše affiliation could get him banned and make him lose money.

    There was never any big Bosnian/Hercegovac feud in Croatia.Their mentality is very much similar,and they gravitated towards the HDZ.With the change of government they got depowered and now they are trying to politically reestablish themselves,but the mess they’ve made was so big that it’s not gonna be forgotten anytime soon imo.So now in the liberal environment the church takes it on itself to be caretaker of Croatian “morale”,and is sending a message through certain artists (Thompson included) trying to impose a very narrow notion of what does it take to be a real Croat,and what are his values.They fail to realise that it’s perfectly possible to be a Croat without being a believer or a nationalist.

    #420457

    Anonymous

    Totalno si promasio poentu pjesme. Also, we don't need your approval to sing our songs about Bosnia.  ::)

    But all opinions are welcome of course.  ;D

    Of course you dont need my approval, I am not the administrator of the forum. ;) I just think that Croatian songs inspired by greater Croatia ideology do not have place in Bosnian and Herzegovinian national board. If some of our Serbian members would put "patriotic"  ::) songs about areas in Croatia they inhabited for ages in the Croatian section, how would you feel?

    This is not isolated case, Thompson is known for his song "lijepa li si" where he mentions Herceg-Bosnia (one of teh alternative names for Bosnia throughout history) as one of exclusively Croatian lands.

    Pjesmo moja pjevat ću te tamo,
    tamo gdje je naša loza počela,
    staroj majci kolijevci Hrvata
    gdje se naša povijest krvlju pisala.

    Croatian line in the Balkans started just behind coastal cities, somewhere between Istra and Cetina river, not in Bosnia.

    Sa svih strana svijeta
    dolazile tvrde sile mraka
    ko da narod tamo gine iz meraka.

    Recently, ustasha forces from Zagreb in teh WWII and Tudjmans troops that wanted to split Bosnia with Milosevic and Alija.

    Another Balkan war, this time about the song 

    My song, I will sing you there
    where our (Russian) line begun,
    to the old cradle of the Russians
    where our history was written in blood.

    How would you react if this is a song about Poland? :)

    @Gvarda, thumbs up! To hell with all idiots that get rich by using the most primitive human instincts. :)

    #420458

    Anonymous

    He depicts it as a proud heart of Croatdom,a statement with which every Croat from Croatia who is worth his mettle wipes his a** with.

    P.S.-I think That Xekoslav is posting from truly patriotic reasons,and not from nationalistic ones.I just think it’s a poor choice of artist,but to each their own.

    #420459

    Anonymous

    Nah , the song is 0% provocative and these two guys know that. They only hate it because of the singer which should be a separate issue but they will judge every thing he does and says as highly negative including his music.

    He’s not trying to prove Bosnia is only Croatian. You and Krsto are injecting those kinds of politics. Nothing is said about Hrvatska even.  As I said my Bosniak friend introduced me to the song ( which he likes by the way) and I thought it was a nice song about Bosnia. I don’t care who sings it. It’s definitely from a more Croatian point of view but so what? We deserve to have a view just as other peoples of Bosnia do and not one offensive thing was said to any other people. 

    I just think that Croatian songs inspired by greater Croatia ideology do not have place in Bosnian and Herzegovinian national board.

    Nothing in the song refers to Greater Croatia. Hrvatska as a country isn’t even mentioned. You judge based on your opinion of the singer only.

    If some of our Serbian members would put “patriotic”  ::) songs about areas in Croatia they inhabited for ages in the Croatian section, how would you feel?

    Serbs would never sing about Croatia. Name one Serbian patriotic song where Hrvatska is used in a positive way? They would sing about Krajina and call it Srbija.

    This is not isolated case, Thompson is known for his song “lijepa li si” where he mentions Herceg-Bosnia (one of teh alternative names for Bosnia throughout history) as one of exclusively Croatian lands.

    Exactly , its another way of saying Bosnia and Herzegovina. So what? Lijepa Li Si doesn’t have one mention about Croatia by name. Only whiny critics make it to be something political.  He’s singing about our people not about who owns what land. That’s why the last stanza of the song ends with ‘ zagrlimo se pred svima neka vide da nas ima.’  In recent times Bosniak patriotic songs also used the reference of Herceg Bosna , should we bring the hammer of political correctness down on them too?

    Samo Bosnu ne dirajte

    Patriotske pjesme-Sarajevo Zaboravit Neće nikada

    ( Btw, I mean no provocation here , just proving a point.)

    Croatian line in the Balkans started just behind coastal cities, somewhere between Istra and Cetina river, not in Bosnia.

    And all of what is Western Bosnia today , but whatever. Bosnia has significance because that’s where Duvanjsko Polje is located today which has meaning to Croats. I’m not trying to get in another historical discussion by the way, you’re free to disagree of course , but there is a reason why such words having meaning to certain people. Bosniaks sing songs about Jajce , Banja Luka , Bihac and all of these areas that were outside of the scope of the original Bosnia which was a small pocket of land in modern eastern Bosnia yet why would I critique them for doing so since clearly these places have meaning to them?

    Recently, ustasha forces from Zagreb in teh WWII and Tudjmans troops that wanted to split Bosnia with Milosevic and Alija.

    What a load of BS. The politicians from Zagreb that supported the ‘Republika’ Herceg Bosna separatists in Mostar were not Ustase . Far from it , they were a different and modern brand of HDZ nationalists. In fact , the nationalists that considered themselves modern Ustase were for the preservation of BiH as a whole and not its partition.

    The Bosnian government made this ‘Ustasha’ a colonel in it’s own Army but he was murdered a few days later presumably by Croatian assassins loyal to Boban and Tudjman.

    My song, I will sing you there
    where our (Russian) line begun,
    to the old cradle of the Russians
    where our history was written in blood.

    How would you react if this is a song about Poland?

    This is BS and you know it. Poland was never a land of the Russian people nor are Russians a native nation there. Croats , Serbs , and Bosniaks are all equal members of the Bosnian nation and each has the right to claim Bosnia in aspects of their history. They are all the people of the land. To simply imply we are like Russians in Poland is a real insult and shows you may not be the level headed and mature person I thought you were. It’s disappointing. Are you really trying to spread this BS to our other Slavic friends here?

    It’s very simple,most Croats like the songs from ther regions and about their regions.Halid is a Bosniak and somewhat of a legend in these parts,and he definitely doesn’t sing about nationalism/religion.As for the “bigger Croat than thou” it started with Bosnians moving here and talking crap,and Thompson was always the prefered musical backround of that sentiment.

    Oh that’s big steaming pile of crock right there and you know it. Don’t blame it on the Bosnian Croats exclusively. Are you saying the whole BBB blood feud they have with Torcida are the fault of Bosnian Croats as well? Those are the same purgeri that call everyone else cigani. The insults and poor attitude isn’t just one way. Anyway you just demonstrated the reason such a song was made. The more Croatians consider their own people foreigners because they come from somewhere else the more destructive it is to us as a whole. Your bias against Bosnians only validates why such a song was made. And I don’t think you know the difference between Bosanci and Hercegovci. I am from that region by blood and when people say ‘Rodjo’ that’s a Hercegovina thing 100%. Plus its no secret that Hercegovci are the most successful businessmen in Zagreb.  A lot of the Bosanci live in poorer areas of Croatia.

    Well I didn’t see them segragating among themselves prior to the new government’s election.Ofc now it suits them to separate themselves when the political climate in the country has changed.These days I revel in finally getting to hear the beautiful accents of Croatia when I turn on the tv,opposed to “đe’s” slang of the previos outfit.
    I live in the eastern part of the town where most Bosnians settled,so I know where they are from.The place is dotted with Bosnian bars (where you can almost always find “Jasenovac i Gradiška Stara” song),to which I often went to drink while I was in my binge phase.

    They don’t have to agree on every facet of politics but they are desnicari ( right wingers) while the city folk of Zagreb are center left at least according to the voting data. Bosanci and Hercegovci aren’t the only right wing Croats , a large part of Dalmacija and Slavonija are as well where as Istra and Zagreb are left. Btw , I don’t speak Dze and neither does most of my family from Bosnia.  We say ‘Di si’ not ‘Dze si’  but my grandma says ‘Dze.’ I think its rather pathetic to get worked up about how people talk and shows a sign of intolerance. I’ve been to those Bosnian bars ( owned by both Croats and Bosniaks as well as native zagrepcani) and I never heard that song in there. They typically play music from everywhere including Serbian music.

    Most that I encountered that mocked people were Bosnians,not Hercegovci.I don’t really have a problem since I speak the slang of the capitol in my day to day life,but I understand kajkavski very well since it was the dialect of my grandparents here in Prigorje,and is still the dialect of my mother’s side of family in Zagorje.Nothing disgusts me more than when a person from Zagorje comes to capitol and is being ridiculed for his heavy accent by some shepherd who came here twenty years ago.

    Honestly , that sounds like a personal problem. Funny though , a lot of my Bosnian friends in Zagreb have adopted the local speech including my cousins. They say Kaj all the time and are quite proud of being from Zagreb now. They are hardcore Dinamo fans too.

    He is the only Croatian musician that gathers so many of fascist insignia on his concerts.He denies sympathies for Ustaše because it would hurt his money making .Especially abroad in the countries like Germany,Australia or Canada where he makes alot of money singing to the diaspora,and Ustaše affiliation could get him banned and make him lose money.

    I don’t think Thompson encourages it but I agree with you in as much as I do not like that he basically turns a blind eye to it. This is why I don’t really thing he’s a big deal like some of my diaspora friends do. He is a Croatian celebrity and whether he likes it or not , or we like it or not , in the media he will always represent us in some way and with that I think comes responsibility. Honestly I am sick of having to ‘answer’ for some of those stupid fans or his ‘controversial’ songs just because I like some of his songs. I think some of the words are brilliant and I’ve always been a fan of that Iron Maiden style rock. I care more about the music and not the singer if that makes any sense. I made this post not about the singer but about the song. We can discuss the singer in other threads I suppose.

    There was never any big Bosnian/Hercegovac feud in Croatia.Their mentality is very much similar,and they gravitated towards the HDZ.With the change of government they got depowered and now they are trying to politically reestablish themselves,but the mess they’ve made was so big that it’s not gonna be forgotten anytime soon imo.So now in the liberal environment the church takes it on itself to be caretaker of Croatian “morale”,and is sending a message through certain artists (Thompson included) trying to impose a very narrow notion of what does it take to be a real Croat,and what are his values.They fail to realise that it’s perfectly possible to be a Croat without being a believer or a nationalist

    Bro , you don’t know our people down there , I’m sorry to say. During the war BiH Croats killed each other because of vastly different policies. And within BiH the superiority complex of the Hercegovci is negative toward Croatian Bosanci too. They consider the Bosanci as weak and too much like Bosniaks and Serbs while Bosanski Hrvati consider Hercegovci as crooks and primitive. There are only half a million of us total left in BiH and we have the most splits within our own political organizations because we can’t agree on s*hit.  I agree with the rest of what you wrote. I would like to say first of all that I am an atheist/agnostic and I don’t consider myself a nationalist in the negative sense. It’s no secret that Thompson became a huge Catholic and holds those typical religious right views as regards people’s morality. My personal views are what they would call ‘libertarian’ here in North America. I don’t really mind what other peoples’ personal values are and certainly don’t mind if they have their own opinion so long as you don’t attack or hurt anyone else. A sort of ‘keep your hands to yourself’ view. I don’t believe in using force to achieve agreement or peace but rather persuasion.

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