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  • #346536

    Anonymous

    Old Church Slavonic=Old Bulgarian (as it is justly called by Bg linguists)
    "Old Church Slavonic" sht and zhd reflexes of proto-Slavic, proto-Slavonic, common Slavic, common Slavonic tj and dj are only to be found in present-day Bg (except some Macedonian dialects, but not in standard, codified, literary Macedonian).
    It's true that the noun declension system of Serbian is much similar to the Old Bulgarian one, than the New Bulgarian one is but Bulgarian has aorist, imperfect (in Serbian these two verbal tenses are dead, Macedonian has them of course), has the h-phoneme (Serbian has it too but it's a recent reintroduction, a recovering, Macedonian has lost it), has "-vn-" ravna, ravno, ravni (same as in Serbian, unlike the Macedonian "-mn-"), many words have the same stress in Bg and in Old Bulgarian, (Serbian can't have last-syllable stress, Macedonian has no last- or forelast-syllable stress) and so on and so on and so on.

    #431795

    Anonymous

    I don't agree with

    Old Church Slavonic=Old Bulgarian

    I agree with

    Old Church Slavonic=Old Slavic

    and

    Old Bulgarian=Bulgar language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_language)

    #431796

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I don't agree with

    Old Church Slavonic=Old Bulgarian

    I agree with

    Old Church Slavonic=Old Slavic

    and

    Old Bulgarian=Bulgar language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_language)

    Yeah right, Old Church Slavonic is also called OC Slavic, that means Slovenes and Slovaks have the "justification" to claim it as their own, especially Slovaks (there was a Moravian version of OBulgarian but no Slovenian one, there are even texts in Old Slovenian different from OBulgarian and almost as old as the oldest Old Bulgarian texts)
    Old Church Slavonic is Old Bulgarian from a strictly linguistic viewpoint as it is the closest to New Bg.
    I guess if the Slavs from Suho consider themselves Macedonians you too "have" the "justification" to call it Old Macedonian. If they consider themselves Slavophone Greeks I guess it should be called Old Greek, according to your "logic". Suho dialect however is closer to standard New Bulgarian that to any other modern Slavic language, including standard Slavic Macedonian. That means that the current shape of "Old Church Slavonic" is a Bg dialect, meaning that "OCS" was a Bg dialect too, from a strictly linguistic viewpoint (disregarding what Suho people consider themselves to be ethnically speaking).
    Btw don't you find just a bit contradicting that ancient Macedonian is no Slavic language as opposed to "Old Macedonian" ("Old Church Slav(on)ic", Old Bulgarian)? That means that Very Old Macedonian 1 (ancient=very old) is different than Very Old Slav(on)ic 2 (very old slavonic=proto-Slavonic=proto-Slavic=common Slavic=common Slavonic). There are therefore two "codifications" of proto-Slavic/ancient Macedonian = one is a Slavic language (reconstructed) and one is Greek dialect, Grecoid "language". That is something unique in world linguistics  ;D
    Just like your "history" is unique  8)
    Btw, if "ubav" and "razbiram" are Torkak "Serb" words, which are the Bg words? There are no typically Bg words then. This means Bg is a Serb dialect and Slavic Macedonian nothing more than a subdialect.
    I rest my case and I require to become a member of the Serb or Slavic Macedonian "Academy" 8)

    #431797

    Anonymous

    I don't know how close old Slovenian is to Old Church Slavonic, but you sherlocks may try it out. Here's a short cut out from the Freising manuscripts (Brižinski spomeniki).

    GLAGOLITE PO NAƷ REDKA ZLOUEZA·
    Boſe, Gozpodi miloztiuv́i · otze boſe · tebe izpovuede ·
    vueʒ moi greh· Iʹzuetemu creʒtu· Iʹzuetei marii· Iʹzue
    temu michaelu· Iuuizem crilatcem boſiem· I ʒuetemu petru·
    Iúʒem zelom boſiem· Iúʒem muſenicom boſiem·
    Iúʒem vuernicom boſiem· Iúzem· devuám praudnim· Iúʒē
    praudnim· Itebe boſirabe· chokú· biti· izpovueden· uʒeh · moih
    greh· Iʹvueruiú · dami· ie · naʒem zuete · beuſi· iti ſe· na oń
    ʒuet· pakiſe uʒtati· naʒodni23 den· Iʹmeti mi ie·ʹſivuot́
    poʒem· Iʹme ti mi ie · ot puʒtic moih grechou· Boſe
    miloʒtiuvi · primi moiv·izpovued· moih grechou· Eſe
    ieʒem ztuoril zla· pot den pongeſe bih naʒi zvuet·
    v́uuraken· ibih criſken· Eſe pomngu· ili ne pomngu· Ili
    vúolu· ili ne vúolu· Ili vúede · ili ne vúede· Ili úne praud
    nei rote· ili úlſi· Ili tatbe· ili ʒavuiʒti· ili v́ uzmaʒi·
    Ili vʒiniſtue · ili eſe miʒetomu·chotelo · emuſe mibi· ne doʒ
    talo · choteti· Ili vpoglagolani· ili ʒpé· ili nezṕe· ʹIli eſe
    iezem· ne zpaʒal· nedela· ni zúeta vuécera · ni mega
    poʒta· Iʹ· inoga·mnogoga · eſe protiubogu· íprotiu me
    mu creʒtu· Tí edin boſe· vuéz· caċo mi iega potre
    ba vúelica· Boſe gozpodi miloʒtiví · tebe ze mil
    tuoriv́· od· ʒih poſtenih greh· Iʹ· odi neh mnozeh·
    I· vuénſih· í minſih· Eſe iezem ztvoril· teh ze·t́ebe
    miltuoriv́· Iʹ· ʒuetei marii· Iʹ· v́ zem ʒvetiḿ ·

    image

    #431798

    Anonymous

    Provocations written by somone without any linguistic or historical knowledge.

    OCS has been based on a dialect of Common Slavic language spoken by the Byzantine Slavs living in the Province of Thessalonica, its name was simply Slavic language and the compilers of the OCS texts called themselves Slavs. Since it has been based on one of the East-South-Slavic dialects its closest relatives (I can't say descendants because it was a literary language) are Bulgarian and Macedonian dialects.

    #431799

    Anonymous

    Anyone can post letters of church slavonic with todays equivalent?

    #431800

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Anyone can post letters of church slavonic with todays equivalent?

    No Slavic language preserved all the phonemes of the Common-Slavic period.

    #431801

    Anonymous

    The linguistic differance between Freising manuscript and what we call Old Chruch Slavonic at that time was on the level of dialects. There are some praticularities in the language of Freising manuscript like Krilatec for angel, etc. However i must warn that the concept of what is dialect and what is seperate language is often subject of political interpretation.

    #431802

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Provocations written by somone without any linguistic and historical knowledge.

    Hey that Serb again! No your version of "history" or "lingustics" that you and Vlachs taught "Macdedonians" doesn't count as knowledge. I admit not having knowledge of it.
    Provocations are allowed here, just like Serbian provocation of the type "'Macedonians' and Montenegrins are Sb" are allowed in other subforums.

    Quote:
    OCS has been based on a dialect of Common Slavic language spoken by the Byzantine Slavs living in the Province of Thessalonica, its name was simply Slavic language and the compilers of the OCS texts called themselves Slavs. Since it has been based on one of the East-South-Slavic dialects its closest relatives (I can't say descendants because it was a literary language) are Bulgarian and Macedonian dialects.

    OCS=Old Bulgarian according to Bulgarian scientists and (in the past) German ones. It is much closer related to Bulgarian than standard "Macedonian" which among other Vlacho-Albano-Greek things has "se razbira" instead of "razbira se" Bg, "razume se" Sb. Suho dialect is clearly much closer related to Bg than to "Macedonian". Since when literary languages have no descendants?

    #431803

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    The linguistic differance between Freising manuscript and what we call Old Chruch Slavonic at that time was on the level of dialects. There are some praticularities in the language of Freising manuscript like Krilatec for angel, etc. However i must warn that the concept of what is dialect and what is seperate language is often subject of political interpretation.

    They were dialects by current standards, still there is one Old Slovenian language and a Bulgarian one. There are no Old Serbian or Old Macedonian, only Sb, Moravian "redactions" of Old Bulgarian.

    #431804

    Anonymous

    Like I said, you obviously don't have linguistic or historical knowladge, you also lack basic conversation skills, and I have no time for ignorants.

    #431805

    Anonymous

    Anyone can tell me difference between church slavonic and slavjanoserbski?

    #431806

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Anyone can tell me difference between church slavonic and slavjanoserbski?

    Old Church Slavonic was a literary language based on a dialect of Common Slavic language spoken by the Byzantine Slavs living in the Province of Thessalonica.

    SlavoSerbian was a literary language used at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century by Serbian writers in Vojvodina. It was a hybrid language, a mixture of Russian recension of Old Church Slavonic and the 18th-centry Serbian vernacular.

    #431807

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Old Church Slavonic is a literary language based on a dialect of Common Slavic language spoken by the Byzantine Slavs living in the Province of Thessalonica.

    SlavoSerbian was a literary language used at the end of the 18th century and the beginning of the 19th century by Serbian writers in Vojvodina. It was a hybrid language, a mixture of Russian recension of Old Church Slavonic and the 18th-centry Serbian vernacular.

    Thanks, i found letters of Church slavonic, but i cant find Slavoserbian letters. Do you know what letters were different?

    #431808

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Thanks, i found letters of Church slavonic, but i cant find Slavoserbian letters. Do you know what letters were different?

    I don't remember were there any script changes in Russian Church Slavonic, and I think that Serbs were using graždanskiy šrift  from the begining of the 19th century.

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