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  • #344674

    Anonymous

    Interesting, altough shame, most people would not udnerstad this. Mordid, learn Russian ;D
    Rurikid Y_DNA

    Basicaly author, based on resulst of tests, claims Rurikids Y_DNA haplogroup is N1c1, sublcad charcateristic for Sweden tough. Altough there are branches with R1a1 and one even with I2a2. (;D)

    #402139

    Anonymous

    Actually as far as i know haplogroup N is common for Finnic population of Baltic area. Sweedish and Norwegian Vikings carried by far I in biggest amount pointing the original extract of Viking population and then R1a in lesser extent (due to Sarmatian and Slavic IE influx), R1b due to simly IE people of central Europe, and N due to Finnic influx.

    #402140

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Actually as far as i know haplogroup N is common for Finnic population of Baltic area. Sweedish and Norwegian Vikings carried by far I in biggest amount pointing the original extract of Viking population and then R1a in lesser extent (due to Sarmatian and Slavic IE influx), R1b due to simly IE people of central Europe, and N due to Finnic influx.

    Yes, according to this text it is subclad characteristc for Sweden, few Sweden families care same marker, and they hail from Gotland.

    #402141

    Anonymous

    I never denied the possibility of Scandinavian origin of Rurikid dynasty. In my vision, Rus' came from Novgorod and from nowhere else. However, the Slavic civilisation existed before their arrival, so the statements of German chauvinist are just ridiculous. Being citizens of state controled by white dynasty of foreign origin is much better than be khazarian slaves and to have a capital founded by nomads for example.. The concept of Kievan Rus' was mostly created by different Soviet historians who tried to justify any possible origin of Russian state besides Scandinavian theory.

    #402142

    Anonymous
    #402143

    Anonymous

    How do they know this?

    #402144

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I never denied the possibility of Scandinavian origin of Rurikid dynasty. In my vision, Rus' came from Novgorod and from nowhere else. However, the Slavic civilisation existed before their arrival, so the statements of German chauvinist are just ridiculous. Being citizens of state controled by white dynasty of foreign origin is much better than be khazarian slaves and to have a capital founded by nomads for example.. The concept of Kievan Rus' was mostly created by different Soviet historians who tried to justify any possible origin of Russian state besides Scandinavian theory.

    OTOH :
    Svenska
    Dansk
    Ekologsk
    etc…

    Man, those do *NOT* sound like saxon german words, but rather Slavic….
    Why always trying to find the supposedly germanic roots of Slavs and not the other way around?

    From scandinavia down to Crete island and from Austria to the sea of Japan used to spread SLAVIC civilizations.

    For me, slavic civilization is so much more obvious and present albeit SO MUCH hidden…

    That is a wonderful mystery… = the complete slavic past of ALL europe.

    #402145

    Anonymous

    At some point in early middle ages fair number of Sweden was populated by Slavic people. This is according to one Swedish documentary i watched once. Its long ago so i forgot the details. Anyway Slavic tribes embracing foreigners in their tribes and even their names, etc. this isn't unusual. This is pretty much typical tactic they welcomed foreigners for some benefits and over time peacefully assimilated them. :D Altho there is nothing conclusive the Scandinavian origin of early Rus seems most possible due to sources, etc. Also for example Sweden is called Ruotsi by Finns and Russia is Venäjä. Allegedly early Rus were from Roslagen area. In any case those Rus who came to Slavic and Ugro-finnic lands were small in number and became Slavicised.

    #402146

    Anonymous

    @pyrros:
    These endings came from Proto-Germanic *-iskaz, from also English -ish came, and German -isch. The ending is a cognate, to the Slavic -ski.

    Generally linguistics suspect a Slavo-Germanic linguistic league, because many words borrowed from Slavic existed in early Germanic, and words borrowed from Germanic were present in early Slavic languages – thus they lived close, and culture transfer occurred both ways.

    By the way, Ruotsi probably derives from an Old Norse word for "rowers".

    #402147

    Anonymous

    Ska endings exist among Slavic folk too but it depends on situation. For example Slovene army is Slovenska vojska. :D Svenska means Swedish language on other hand. Yeah we know Germanics adopted many things from us. Example it is mostly agreed that German word grenze comes from Slavic granica. Germans agree on this they have no problems with this;

    Das im 12./13. Jahrhundert aus dem Altpolnischen entlehnte graniza/graenizen/greniz hat sich von den östlichen Kolonisationsgebieten aus allmählich über das deutsche Sprachgebiet ausgeweitet, und das fränkische Wort Mark (Grenze, Grenzgebiet), Gemerke (Grenze, Grenzgebiet, daraus Grenzmarkierung, Stadtzeichen (meist Initial), Familienzeichen) oder Anewand (wo der Pflug wendet, z. B. Hinterhermsdorf an der böhmischen Anewand) verdrängt. Als aber in der ottonischen Epoche dieser Begriff auch für die an der Grenze liegenden Länder in Gebrauch kam, wurde für die Grenzlinie das polnische Wort (granica) übernommen.

    #402148

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    How do they know this?

    The dynasty of Rurik ended with Ivan the terrible who died in 1584. There were many Rurik’s decedents living between 862 and 1584 and later periods. Data from 191 people claiming to be decedents of Rurik, through Vladimir Monomakh (1094) and from another lineage of Rurik decedents, were collected and Y-chromosome was conducted. All people claiming ancestry through Vladimir Monomach belong to N1c1 group. The other group belong to R1 and other haplogroups. It could be because some people were assuming false ancestry or wives were unfaithful to their husbands.

    There is also a family vault of the great Muscovite princes and kings in Archangel Cathedral of Moscow Kremlin many of which I suspect are Rurik decedents. The skeletons could be used to conduct Y-chromosome test but I doubt Russian authorities would touch the burials just to conduct the Y-chromosome test.

    I would not be concerned too much about the haplogroup of Rurik because nobody knows exactly if Rurik existed. The only written account of Rurik is in the Tale of Bygone years stating he was invited by Ilmene Slavs and Chud’ in 862. However, there are no doubts that Vikings had strong presence in Rus’. Staraya Ladoga and Gnyozdovo are the largest archeological sites in Europe outside of Scandinavia in which Vikings artifacts are found. There are so many artifacts found that some believe that these Viking settlements.  Today, Starya Ladoga is a small village near veliky Novgorod which, according to the Tale of Bygone years, was the very first capital of Rus. Gnyozdovo is located near Smolensk on Dnieper river which is a very large archeological site. It’s a Belarusian historical land but that’s another story…

    #402149

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    How do they know this?

    Because living descendants of him took DNA tests. And most of them have same Y-DNA. Main branch of Rurikid's, (that of Alexander Nevski, which ruled Mosocw) went extinct, but there are hundreds, if not thousends of Rurikid's living arround. Theoreticaly, every Russian noble with title of Prince is Rurikid or Gedimind. And this wa taken among males with Principl title.
    Essentialy, scientis find Swedish families which share same Y-DNA with Rurikds, so according to this researches, Swedish ancestry of Rurikd is plausible.
    Concnerning extinct Moscow line, all other principal famileis beloning to their branch are of N1c1, except of Shuisky family which is R1a1. We could conclude, that most likely Moscow branch, which created Russian Empire, (Dimitry Kalita to Theodor I), also belonged N1c1

    PS
    please, no off-topic.

    #402150

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    @pyrros:
    These endings came from Proto-Germanic *-iskaz, from also English -ish came, and German -isch. The ending is a cognate, to the Slavic -ski.

    Generally linguistics suspect a Slavo-Germanic linguistic league, because many words borrowed from Slavic existed in early Germanic, and words borrowed from Germanic were present in early Slavic languages – thus they lived close, and culture transfer occurred both ways.

    By the way, Ruotsi probably derives from an Old Norse word for "rowers".

    except that slavic suffixes are pretty consistent in all current (living) slavic nations whereas the theory about the supposed proto-germanic suffix etc…. are just mere hypothesis.

    One should expect the scandinavians/germans/english/dutch, living so closely, to exhibit a much higher similarity than the slavs who used live up to 10,000 km apart from each other and STILL retain their common language.

    So, i do not quite buy the "-ishka" -ish, -ich, theory. It sounds too "albanian" for me.

    #402151

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    except that slavic suffixes are pretty consistent in all current (living) slavic nations whereas the theory about the supposed proto-germanic suffix etc…. are just mere hypothesis.

    I don't think it is so consistent.

    #402152

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I don't think it is so consistent.

    this is relative. In comparison to the rest of civilizations i think it is true. (e.g. (average deviation from one another) divided by ((the area they occupy) * (amount of years they live separately)).

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