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  • #345062

    Anonymous

    I heard of these people but what a hell is their differance anyways? I can't distinct them by costumes somehow for example. It seems they look like average regional costumes. However i mean general differances also like cultural, linguistical, historical, etc. ??? what actually distincts them between each others? :P

    Explanation on one of the forums i got;

    My great grandparents were Lemkos, who were from the area once known as Galicia in the south of modern day Poland (north side of the Carpathian Mountains – see the maps already provided).

    It's a complicated subject, as there are a few different "flavors" of Rusyns, who spoke different dialects. That said, your theory is correct – the Lemkos are indeed a subset of Rusyns.

    Additionally i found this map; (Realistic?)

    image

    #410513

    Anonymous

    White Croat homeland !  Just kidding. Interesting map Povhec.

    #410514

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Additionally i found this map; (Realistic?)

    Given that the data is from 1910, it is :) My book about Slavic dialects (printed before WW2) confirms that “Tatra part”. Generally Lemkos' territories are rather in line with my common sense :) I don't know about the Slovak/Ukrainian part.

    #410515

    Anonymous

    that map could have been a bit accurate (with lots of bits of salt  ;D ) before k.u.k empire fell apart, anyway it shows rusyns copying eastern border of subcarpathia so accurately… lol  ;D

    well rusyn is name that afaik originates on "the other side" – once all eastern slavs (except of muscovites i think) called themselves rusyn. rusin means "of rus" (srbin…)
    lemko is said to originate as pejorative name for rusyns living in poland, who (among other things) differed from polish or ukrainian population by saying "lem" instead of "tylko" (for "just, only"). they slowly adopted it and brought to hungary during immigration waves (when replacing those who moved south to vojvodina, or who died during wars/epidemics)
    rusyns in hungary couldnt be called lemko, as they werent only slavs to use word "lem". ill come to names for people at this side of hills later.
    bojko. idk much about that, i dont dare to tell who they are, but their name is said to originate in "bo je", a certain phrase. well we use it too when trying to emphasize something, and we surely arent any bojkos  ;D
    hutsul. hutul (pron: hutsul) i think means highwayman, or bandit in romanian, so the origins seem to be clear  ;D anyway my impression is, that huculs are more or less ukrainized. they live in maramures and hills north of it
    verchovinci – highlanders, i think they overlap with hutsuls
    dolyňany – valleymen, i think its name for those who live in lowland part of subcarpathian rus

    ok those were names which are pretty unknown here.
    names of slavic people in todays eastern slovakia (not all must be rusyns). since concept of ethnicity as we know it today was unknown to slavs in northeastern hungary, they used these names to differentiate between themselves
    rusnaks – ppl belonging to eastern church. not all rusnaks are rusyns (in linguistic sense)
    copaks – from "co pak" (what), they live in spiš, idk which part exactly (spiš is a big area), some rusyns are copaks
    štotaks – say "što" (what). most rusyns are štotaks
    šotaks – say "šo" (what). some rusyns are šotaks
    pijdaks – say "pijdu" (ill go). and generally they say i instead of o. pijdu, mij, vivca etc, like ukrainians.
    pujdaks – say "pujdu". generally o changes to u. some rusyns are pujdaks, most are pijdaks. although this change of o to u occurs in nonrusyn population too
    hutoraks – hutoric "to speak". eastern slovak (slovjak) dialect. some hutoraks are also rusnaks (me  ;D )
    sotaks – say "so" (what). special ethnographic group, they used to be quite different from others (quite closed community, more generations of 1 family (up to 30 ppl) living in 1 house, capable traders), hutorak dialect with weird accent and weird pronunciation, they live mostly in sotakeria, some are rusnaks too.

    as for costumes. festive costumes varied from area to area and evolved in time, everyday clothing in lesser degree (less possibility for variations).

    (edited for mistakes)

    #410516

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    lemko is said to originate as pejorative name for rusyns living in poland, who (among other things) differed from polish or ukrainian population by saying "lem" instead of "tylko" (for "just, only"). they slowly adopted it and brought to hungary during immigration waves (when replacing those who moved south to vojvodina, or who died during wars/epidemics)

    How “lem” is pronounced? I'm especially interested about “l” :) is it ль or л(ъ) ?

    bojko. idk much about that, i dont dare to tell who they are, but their name is said to originate in "bo je", a certain phrase. well we use it too when trying to emphasize something, and we surely arent any bojkos  ;D

    I've heard that the most probable etymology is a pejorative name given to them by their neighbours, because they were afraid of sth :) There's also a fantasy theory, that the name originates from the Boii Celtic tribe.

    #410517

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    How “lem” is pronounced? I'm especially interested about “l” :) is it ль or л(ъ) ?
    I've heard that the most probable etymology is a pejorative name given to them by their neighbours, because they were afraid of sth :) There's also a fantasy theory, that the name originates from the Boii Celtic tribe.

    I'm wondering too, because in Slovak lem (dialectal) or len (standard) are pronounced soft – ль. Well, at least it should be done so because many people (especially the youth) use л(ъ). IMO after all it isn't the case, 'cause it's the same word – for "only, just". Barov might tell us as I don't live close to Rusyns.

    Anyway, no one did mention Boj – a fight, which is a common Slavic word. I would say that the third theory might say about Boykos being warriors. Boy = a fight, -ko = ending denoting a person (bojovník in Slovak). Boykos as people who are afraid of something, well.. seems to me like a wrong theory. Sometimes things are pretty simple, it's just people who complicate them.

    #410518

    Anonymous

    There is a theory for Boykos that their name come from their saying "Nu, bo vono tak i ye."
    There is also some theory , which sounds interesting but I don't know how plausible, that they might have some connection to old Serbian homeland called Boyka which indeed has it's roots in the word bojь.

    From wiki article about Boyka:

    Bojka, (Boiki, derived from the Proto-Slavic *bojь. = battle, war, fight) may be connected with the ethnographic group of Ukrainians, the Boyko, and the Celtic tribe of Boii, who in the 2nd century BC dwelled around the Danube

    From wiki article about Boykos :

    their folk costumes as well as music, show strong similarities to the South Slavs (Serbs, Croats, Bulgars).

    But also :

    An older view proposed by the 19th century authors I. Vahylevych, Ya. Holovatsky, and P. Šafárik links the Boyos to the Celtic Boii, a tribe unattested since the beginning of the Common Era

    #410519

    Anonymous

    I think we Croatians should get behind the Subcarpathian Rus. I'm not talking about seperating from Ukraine ( I have respect for Ukrainians as well) but Ukraine ought to recognize them as a national minority and restore their autonomy ( all the other Slavic countries that host Rusyn minorities have at least recognized them as a national minority). But I think its important especially for Croatia to be involved. It's well established that the Subcarpathian Rus were , in fact , White Croats and share the same Croatian ancestors as we Adriatic Croats. Personally , my greatgrandmother was a Rusyn from Ukraine. They are an older 'missing piece' of our nation and deserve our support.

    #410520

    Anonymous

    Ingva , Oni su potomci starih bijelih Hrvata. Oni sami to pisu o sebi na svom websajtu.

    http://www.rusyn.com/
    http://www.carpatho-rusyn.org/history.htm

    #410521

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    I've read a lot about it some time ago, and know that a lot of them till recently were declaring themselves as White Croats.

    I posted those quotes only because of their name and the possible etymologies.
    I personally think that even the name of Boyka came as a variation of already known name of Boii who once inhabited the same region.

    #410522

    Anonymous

    lem – hard L
    bo je = "it is" (emphasis)
    rusyns and warriors? unlikely  ;D just enough courage to get in fight at a disco  ;D
    ofc its hard to generalize like this, but even ethnographers mention their pacifism  :)

    people who live here now are in large (very) part unrelated to population that existed here 800 years ago, so any genetic connection with white croats or even boii (anyway boii lived in bohemia) is highly doubtful in my opinion.
    think of invasions, wars, epidemics, emigration waves on one hand, and waves of colonists and settlers on the other hand

    what some rusyn activists write isnt guaranteed to be truth  :) anyway i think those whitecroat-rusyn things originate from timkovič brothers, two (former?) monks who are a bit chauvinistic and wrote all kind of weird things and they have conflicts with lots of people (archeparch of prešov, etc), somehow were involved in a bomb threat, etc.
    i dont think rusyns ever declared themselves as white croats. actually i think its nonsense.

    #410523

    Anonymous

    How true is the story that all Ukrainians once called themselves as Rusyns ?

    #410524

    Anonymous

    its attested. all slavic people of kievan rus were rusins (of rus)

    #410525

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    rusyns and warriors? unlikely  ;D just enough courage to get in fight at a disco  ;D
    ofc its hard to generalize like this, but even ethnographers mention their pacifism  :)

    They were pacifists 1000 years ago? IMO they didn't get their ethnic name in the last century. If there are no written mentions of certain events, it doesn't mean nothing like that ever happened.

    Slavs in general were warriors just like any other group of people. But there are a lot of different factors that made some Slavs to be more offensive. Maybe Boykos were a caste of Rusyns who were warriors (something like Spartans, roughly) and now a certain group of Rusyns call themselves by this name. Not a big deal in fact, but who knows.

    #410526

    Anonymous

    rusyns came there in 14th century or so… lots of them moved to lowlands throughout centuries, and population in hills was "reinforced" by settler waves mostly from east (ukraine). invited by landlords who wanted to economically profit from relatively barren highland, in exchange for special tax regime and privileges for colonists

    2013-1000=1013, thats far from 14th century  ;D

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