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  • #342404

    Anonymous

    Ok i made this thread to expand my knowledge about Silesian Poles. I noticed there is alot of Silesian patriotism among Silesian Poles. Also Husarz told me about "drach nach osten" ideology among Silesians. And turns out there are realy some Germany lovers. I found one guy on the youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/GurnySlunzok

    His video:
    1939 Focus on Silesia

    Are they all like that or are there also some moderate Silesians?

    I didnt know about this. I aways tought they are just for bigger freedom of their dialect. So i want to know as much about them. Are all Silesians, german leaning?

    Also please give me detailed difference between standard Polish and Silesian dialect. Is it just pronauciation or are there also some grammatical differences and other language laws? I deleted videos on Guess origin thread so i placed them here:

    My som Slonzoki – Oberschlesier.wmv

    To My Naród Śląski – Ino ślůnsko nacyjo

    #367970

    Anonymous

    There are also many people like this YouTube user: http://www.youtube.com/user/RitterDesHimmels1

    image

    And no… RitterDesHimmels1 is not me… though we both seem to like Husaria ;)

    #367971

    Anonymous

    And no… RitterDesHimmels1 is not me… though we both seem to like Husaria ;)

    I was thinking exactly that.  ;D

    Anyway what about dialect?

    #367972

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Anyway what about dialect?

    To me it is clearly a dialect of Polish. There are more regional differences in German and French than there are in Polish, yet there are no serious calls for "Bavarian autonomy" or "Norman autonomy." Bavaria has a political party that works only in Bavaria, but they seem to be happy with German federalism overall, though they make their region of the country to be their own unique place. THIS is what Silesians should focus on. Otherwise Poland with become a clusterfuck like Yugoslavia was in the mid 1990s with everyone blaming everyone else for all wrong doing instead of focusing on building up a good nation. The current government of Poland wants to implement direct regional elections and this is all the Silesians will need if they are smart enough to seize on that opportunity, I hope they are. They have a lot to work with and they should work with it. Kashubs and Gorals do just that. The current Prime Minister of Poland is a Kashub and he make no effort to hide his Kashub heritage, though he too feels strongly a Pole.

    The question here is not if Silesian identity should be minimized, but how can it be brought forth without compromising the integrity of Poland. Nationalism is all about national unity and not national fragmentation. Anyone who willingly seeks to fragment a nation, any nation, for their own good, is clearly an antagonist or just selfish and stupid.

    #367973

    Anonymous

    Officially, only 6% of people living within Silesian territories support Silesian autonomy, including numbers of Germans living in Poland.

    Aside from parts of Dolny Śląsk voivodship in Poland, there is no really concrete Silesian mentality, identity, language/dialect or even worldview, since much of Śląsk is today mixed territory of Poles from East driven out of their ancestral homes from Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, mixed together with local Germans, Poles and Silesians that were not driven out (authocthons) by Soviets.

    My conclusion? Much of this hardcore Silesians in such videos are not aware of their true roots or crypto-Germans. I was many times in Silesia (my uncle lives in Zabrze) and I personally never came across anti-Polish sentiment (though I admit I've heard of it from some people before).

    #367974

    Anonymous

    Aha ok thanks guys, now i see those Silesians are like some of Resians and Carinthian Slovenes who try to blind themself.

    #367975

    Anonymous

    Silesians and Masovians do have some animosity against the Poles in Greater Poland and Lesser Poland or the Poland that was united by Wladyslaw the Elbowhigh and they at that time sided with John of Luxembourg, these Silesians have forgotten how they were treated by Austria in the Counter reformation and Prussia where in some Silesians were driven to Rawicz area during the counter reformation and some Silesians and Poznanians were resettled in the Ruhr region in Germany or migrated to the USA and the KulturKampf.

    Both Masovians and Silesians have their own language which are distinct from Standard Polish but  are more similar to Polish than Kashubian, however Masovian language was dilluted by Standard Polish, Masovian has common characteristics with Pomeranian/Kashubian.

    #367976

    Anonymous

    During last UEFA, my friends parents, who have bar in Bytom, said many Silesians were supporting German team in matches. Also, their languages has many German loanwords. There is definitely lots of German influence in their culture, but they are not more pro-German than pro-Polish.

    Their autonomy is driven at independence from Poland and anyone else, and not being part of Germany.

    [img width=700 height=522]http://www.newsweek.pl/bins/Media/Pictures/82/82e1/82e17dfaac7d4bc09b65968008c56b5c.jpg”/>

    In this poster, they use Silesian language and not German or Polish. However, they work closely with Silesians, who now live in Germany:

    image

    But they do not want to be part of Germany either.

    I personally support their autonomy and recognition within Poland. I see no reason to force them to believe they are Poles and not their own folk.
    I know Silesians living in Kraków and they indeed are Silesians first before they are Poles, and rightfully so.
    I personally believe if we can come to compromise with them, they will not wish to break away from Poland.

    image

    "Silesia satisfied, Poland whole" and German hands off!

    #367977

    Anonymous

    Wilkolak i think that whole Poland should be federal republic and that Polish federal lands should be established in as much historic sizes as possible. So in this case you would have Polish federal lands of Pomerania, Pomerelia, Silesia, Masovia, etc. In that way Silesians can do with their dialect in their land whatever they like. This dosen't effect unity of people at all just look at Germany.

    #367978

    Anonymous

    Wilkolak i think that whole Poland should be federal republic and that Polish federal lands should be established in as much historic sizes as possible. So in this case you would have Polish federal lands of Pomerania, Pomerelia, Silesia, Masovia, etc. In that way Silesians can do with their dialect in their land whatever they like. This dosen't effect unity of people at all just look at Germany.

    I think both Masovia and Silesia fairly deserve autonomy because they have different history from the other areas of Poland while the Capital would be moved back to Gniezno or Krakow just like in Medieval times.

    #367979

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Wilkolak i think that whole Poland should be federal republic and that Polish federal lands should be established in as much historic sizes as possible. So in this case you would have Polish federal lands of Pomerania, Pomerelia, Silesia, Masovia, etc. In that way Silesians can do with their dialect in their land whatever they like. This dosen't effect unity of people at all just look at Germany.

    Excellent idea, Pohvec, and this is how I would have it done:

    [img width=700 height=650]http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5236/63761633.jpg”/>

    This is approximately how it was shaped in ancient times too:

    image

    Quote:
    I think both Masovia and Silesia fairly deserve autonomy because they have different history from the other areas of Poland while the Capital would be moved back to Gniezno or Krakow just like in Medieval times.

    Kraków should have remained Poland's capital in first place IMHO.

    #367980

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I think both Masovia and Silesia fairly deserve autonomy because they have different history from the other areas of Poland while the Capital would be moved back to Gniezno or Krakow just like in Medieval times.
    Quote:
    Excellent idea, Pohvec, and this is how I would have it done:

    This is approximately how it was shaped in ancient times too:

    Kraków should have remained Poland's capital in first place IMHO.

    Yes that is the way like i view how Poland should be! :D

    #367981

    Anonymous

    Silesia has been a melting pot for German and Polish influences. There were people who declared themselves Polish. There were people who considered themselves Germans. There were people who were just saying "we are Silesians".

    Quote:
    since much of Śląsk is today mixed territory of Poles from East driven out of their ancestral homes from Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, mixed together with local Germans, Poles and Silesians that were not driven out (authocthons) by Soviets.

    What about upper Silesia?

    #367982

    Anonymous
    #367983

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Excellent idea, Pohvec, and this is how I would have it done:

    [img width=700 height=650]http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/5236/63761633.jpg”/>

    "Woj. Wielkopolskie" should be bigger than "Woj. Malopolskie" or not?  :

    Make a connection between those two. "Woj. Mazowieckie" is too big in your map.

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