• This topic has 3 voices and 8 replies.
Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #344306

    Anonymous

    The text is my translation of the article (at least most of it is translated) to which link is below.

    “Chwała vs Sława”

    We advise everyone who uses the term
    “Sława!/Slava!”, and at the same time considers the
    tradition of Polish language important, to substitute this term with
    others, native ones. Why? Because it is not present in Polish
    language. Moreover, there is no sign of it in Old Polish tradition.
    From this point of view it is a neologism, or even macaronicism,
    which is in accordance to Wikipedia [Polish version]: “a term or
    grammatical form derived from a foreign language and incorporated to
    a native language. Its use is usually a manifestation of a trend,
    typical for specific groups that are supposed to distinguish itself
    from the others”. Precisely, it is a ruthenism or russicism
    (e.g. Orthodox “Slava Bohu!” or patriotic call of
    Ukrainians “Slava Ukraini!” or Russians “Slava
    Rossiji!”.

    In Polish language the noun “sława”
    has completely different undercurrent, and means simply “fame”
    or “publicity”. Hence, it is related with temporal matters,
    not always in positive context. Examples: “aktor, który zdobył
    sławę” (an actor who gained fame), “sławna restauracja”
    (famous restaurant). Thus, almost non-existant result in Google for
    phrases: “Sława Bogom” and “Sława Bogu”, in
    cases other than related to Rodnovery. Of course, various close
    groups and subcultures create their own specific vocabulary; the
    subject is known since a long time for social psychology. It’s how it
    is and how it will be. But let’s skip the divagation about mechanisms
    that strengthen the group for a prize of its expansion. It’s enough
    to say that outside of the group such shout often causes smiles and
    confusion. Furthermore – from historical point of view – e.g. people
    who survived the Volhynian massacre, or their families, may be
    offended by such term. For people who want to come out more broadly
    with their researches about native beliefs, to popularise them, this
    situation can be potentially very awkward.

    So what on its place? For beings and
    deeds which are timeless, Polish language differentiates and uses the
    noun “chwała”. For example “Chwała Bohaterom!”
    (Glory to the Heroes), but we also see Czech or Lusatian “chwalić”
    – “Chvála Bohu!” as well as Serbian and Croatian “hvala”
    in the context of thanking, and partially still as a greeting
    (archaism in certain regions). In other Slavic languages for Polish
    “chwała” and Polish “sława” there is only one
    equivalent – “sláva / слава”. The only Polish term
    that is in use and semantically related (e.g. with East Slavic
    “Slava”) is a verb (not a noun!) “sławić” – for
    example “sławić Boga”, which is in use alongside with
    more popular “chwalić Boga” (variant “chwalić”
    is described as Greater Polish script). On the Indoeuropean ground
    “chwała” has similar meaning and ethymology as Persian
    (Avestan) “chwarena”, which means glory, fame, greatness
    etc.

    On the other hand, it is necessary to
    mention, that usage of a noun “sława” was present in Old
    Polish language (collaterally with a noun “chwała”). We
    can find it in Świętokrzyskie (Holy Cross) Sermons from 13th
    century. It is important that the origin of the sermons is from
    Lesser Poland, where as we said already, the phrase “sławić
    Boga” is preent. However, such semantical form in a language is
    waning in Polish language, and more often Greater Polish script in
    favour in that case (“chwalić Boga”). It is also difficult
    to say that it’s a proof that autonomic term “Sława!” in
    the context of “Chwała!” was present at that times.
    Nothing suggests that. Also Medieval chant “Hymnus pro die
    Dominica Palmarum” suggests rather the shout “Chwała i
    Sława!” which is used also today (“Chwała, sława,
    wszelka cześć. Bądź tobie, o Krolu Gosponie!”). Perhaps this
    duality is a result of some older division or cultural influences.
    It’s another subject however.

    What is very important, is that both
    “chwała” and “sława” are unusually old words.
    Claiming that one is older than another would be an abuse. Both of
    them are Old Slavic, so “chwała” is not a construct of
    latter times. It is not a borrowing as well, “chwała” is
    proto-Slavic.

    So, what is the source of “Sława!”
    (in the context of “Chwała!”) in present times? Well, it
    is a neologism. In Poland it’s a shouting created (more than 100
    years ago) by the artists of Modernism period, and by supporters of
    panslavist ideas. For those not oriented: panslavism is a
    philosophical and political movement created in 19th century, focused
    on voluntary unification of the Slavic nations. The form of
    unification was a subject of arguments and discussions, but most
    often it suggested the patronate of Russia.

    Except of mentioned Polish/Old Polish
    greetings and shouts there are also other. For example still alive
    “Cześć”, “Czołem”, “Pozdrawiam!, Hura!”
    (these terms in certain context do not sound ordinary). We have also
    very old phrases addressed originally to Jassa/Świętowit(?), which
    are “Boże-zdarz!”, “Zdarzbóg!”, “Pomagaj-Bóg!”
    and “Daj Bóg!”. We have also a toast mentioned in Old
    Polish sources: “Leli Poleli!” or in its latter latinized
    form “Lelum Polelum!”. It is a reference to the twin gods,
    menioned by Maciej of Miechów in “Chronica Polonorum”,
    known also in folk tales about Waligóra and Wyrwidąb, or through
    the analogies to the West Lechitic foundings on Fischerinsel
    (Tollensee) island, or similar deities among the Balts.

    http://www.bogowiepolscy.net/chwala.html

    #414977

    Anonymous

    Is this the case in Slovak too? I always thought Slava was just a very old word in all Slavic languages , but the article makes sense 

    #436056

    Anonymous

    In Slovak chvála and sláva have the following meanings:
    Sláva = fame/glory.
    Chvála = praise.

    What is very important, is that both “chwała” and “sława” are unusually old words. Claiming that one is older than another would be an abuse. Both of them are Old Slavic, so “chwała” is not a construct of latter times. It is not a borrowing as well, “chwała” is proto-Slavic.


    I don’t know about the word chwała, but sława predates Slavic languages. The word was known by Celts and today it’s still present in Celtic and other European languages and even Sanskrit and Iranian languages.

    The prefix sl- means to hear and many words are derived from it, such as (Slovak variants) slovo, slovan, Slovák, sluch, poslúchať, sláva.

    #436064

    Anonymous

    @srdceleva unfortunately I don’t know about Slovak language. But maybe situation is similar and its common among West Slavic languages in general.

    @”Kapitán Denis” in which Celtic language the word “slava” or anything similar occurs? 

    #436066

    Anonymous

    @GaiusCoriolanus
    Some examples:

    Irish: cluin/clois (to hear)
    Welsh: clywed (to hear)
    Greek: κλαίω (to weep, to cry)
    Greek: κλέος (rumor, fame, glory)
    Latin: clueō (called, named)

    It’s all from the same root like the word sláva.
    The word sláva came to Slavic languages from older common European language.

    All the words are related to hearing.

    How is it related if the words start differently? There is sl-kl-, and cl-! It’s not the same!

    I don’t know, but let’s take the letter c. In English it has two sounds:
    “K” like in the word car.
    “S” like in the word celebrity.

    So the letters and their sounds changed naturally throughout the centuries and that’s why many languages use different prefixes. Slavic languages use sl-.

    #436071

    Anonymous

    Some examples:
    Irish: cluin/clois (to hear)
    Welsh: clywed (to hear)
    Greek: κλαίω (to weep, to cry)
    Greek: κλέος (rumor, fame, glory)
    Latin: clueō (called, named)

    Doesn’t look like “slava”. So the statement about this word being known to the Celts is incorrect. The root, possibly – but you said that this specific word is known to somebody, while it isn’t. And sharing the root is nothing surprising, since we’re all Indoeuropeans.

    #436072

    Anonymous

    @GaiusCoriolanus Sorry, I meant the root of the word.

    But still, how can you tell if the word is the same or different in 2 different languages? Is sláva and sława the same word? They look slightly different and they sound different.

    If they’re the same word, why for example κλέος can’t be the same word?

    It comes from the same root and has the same meaning. It’s even used the same way like in Slavic languages, ie in names:
    Slovak: Rastislav, Greek: Heracles.

    In future, the words sláva and sława may become very different, will they be considered the same word?

    #436073

    Anonymous

    “Same word” and “word with same meaning” are two different things. 

    Anyway, the point is that both “sława” and “chwała” were already in use when teenagers were losing virginity on Kupala night. What is said in the article is that both “sława” and “chwała” are Old Slavic terms. As terms, not as their “root” and whole genesis which may freely lead to abracadabra as well – it is not important. So the root may be whatever it wants to be, but “slava” word is Slavic.

    #436074

    Anonymous

    So sláva and sława are 2 different words with the same meaning.

    #436075

    Anonymous

    I won’t comment. :|

Viewing 10 posts - 1 through 10 (of 10 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.