Viewing 8 posts - 1 through 8 (of 8 total)
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  • #473145
    Boris V.
    Boris V.
    Participant
    @dedushka
    #473151

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex

    “Russia 862”
    “Ukraine 882”

    It was a Normans state in East Europe founded in 862 with capital in Novgorod. Then capital was moved to Kiev in 882 year. It was not neither Russia nor Ukraine and it was not completely Slavic (Normans were the rulers).

    Buy the way Bulgaria founded in 681 was not initially a Slavic too (it was a Turkish state).

    So if we will take into account non Slavic states on the territory of modern Slavic countries we have to consider Ostgothic Kingdom on the territory of today Ukraine (it looks like that all ProtoSlavs lived in this state under the rule of Goths as they lived later in Normans or Bulgarian states), it was founded in 2nd century AD.

    #473152

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex
    #473175

    NikeBG
    Participant
    @nikebg

    Eh, no, because the Ostrogoths left, they were not Slavicized and there is no continuity between their country and the modern Slavic ones (unless you’re coming from some parallel universe, where Ukraine is instead called Ostrogothia).

    On the other hand, there’s the question of the principality of Samo and later those of Moravia, Balaton etc, i.e. whether modern Czechia and Slovakia should be counted as their descendants and continuations or not.

    P.S. <jk>Macedonia was founded around the mid-7th century BC</jk>
    P.P.S. “jk” means I’m joking. 😛

    #473363

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex

    “there is no continuity between their country and the modern Slavic”

    In fact there is a continuity between Ostrogoths and modern Slavics because all Slavic languages have many loan words borrowed from Gothic language in the epoch when Ostrogoths state existed on the territory of today Ukraine. It proves that ancient Slavs either lived in Ostrogoths state or (and?) lived in immediate proximity to it being under strong Gothic cultural influence (Kiev culture to the North of Chernyakhov culture usually considered as Slavic one).

    I did not claim that today Ukraine is a continuation of Ostrogoths state. But Ostrogoths state borders (which can be determined by borders of Chernyakhov culture) are surprisingly close to the borders of today Ukraine. So we may consider Ostrogoths state as a first “Ukrainian” state in geopolitical sense.

    We may also consider Vandal state on the territory of today Poland (Przeworsk culture) as a first “Polish” state in geopolitical sense.

    #473366

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex

    By the way can somebody explain why 987 is chosen as foundation year of Belarus?

    #473651

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex

    More realistic dates in my humble opinion:

    Bulgaria 864
    Ukraine 1253
    Belarus 1307
    Russia 1478

    #473150

    pollex
    Participant
    @pollex

    “Russia 862”
    “Ukraine 882”

    It was a Normans state in East Europe founded in 862 with capital in Novgorod. Then capital was moved to Kievin 882 year. It was not neither Russia nor Ukraine and it was not completely Slavic (Normans were the rulers).

    Buy the way Bulgaria founded in 681 was not initially a Slavic too (it was a Turkish state).

    So if we will take into account non Slavic states on the territory of modern Slavic countries we have to consider Ostgothic Kingdom on the territory of today Ukraine (it looks like that all ProtoSlavs lived in this state under the rule of Goths as they lived later in Normans or Bulgarian states), it was founded in 2nd century AD :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogoths
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernyakhov_culture

     

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