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  • #343950

    Anonymous

    I apologize in advance if this is already a topic on board or if I'm posting in the wrong area. I wanted to open up and discuss the god Veles, what people hear and know of it- and to make a case for Veles actually being a female god, not male, as modern art currently portrays. Will update tommorow and of course if I know I'm posting this in the right area…

    #394638

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    In upcoming game Legends of Dawn, ther are direct references to Perun, Svarog, and Veles in interesting female interpretation.

    http://www.dreamatrix.net/site/index.php/legends-of-dawn/gods.html

    Oh, and don't forgot "Wiedźmin" (Witcher), where player can find several statues of Zbruch Idol

    http://ja.gram.pl/upl/blogi/109022/img_wpisy/2009_39/swiatowid_b.jpg

    What is the most interesting thing, it seems that it is worchiped by some tribe of skrzats http://wiedzmin.wikia.com/wiki/Skrzat (look at the lower photo)

    they make veles female here? I'm glad someone is starting to put two and two together- I have started and been stating for years now that Veles is a female god… I started a thread here yestgerday and promise to get into why— and find it interesting how the obvious has been overlooked!!!!

    #394639

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I have started and been stating for years now that Veles is a female god…

    There is no female Slavic names which ends on anything else but on -a. Square and simple.

    #394640

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    There is no female Slavic names which ends on anything else but on -a. Square and simple.

    Lol, yes there is and I promise to write an article for the case of veles being female, I mean it's so obvious to me studying and learning about other goddess legends, her story fits with all the female serpentine goddesses, why did she end up male in slavic mythlogy is something I will get into as well… *facepalm* at slavic reconstructionists who are refusing to put two and two together.

    You can change an entire history with changing one simple letter, for someone generations years later to read and misinterpret.

    remenants of slavic idols, showed gods with beards and breasts at the same time) I saw pictures of them 20 years ago in libraries- still trying to find it online.

    You can not decide the sex of a god simply by the letters, but by the actualy stories. Have you forgotten that the bible is a great metaphysical reference of the downfall of the feminine in spirutality- paganism was almost always about goddess worshipping.

    #394641

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Lol, yes there is and I promise to write an article for the case of veles being female, I mean it's so obvious to me studying and learning about other goddess legends, her story fits with all the female serpentine goddesses, why did she end up male in slavic mythlogy is something I will get into as well… *facepalm* at slavic reconstructionists who are refusing to put two and two together.

    You can change an entire history with changing one simple letter, for someone generations years later to read and misinterpret.

    remenants of slavic idols, showed gods with beards and breasts at the same time) I saw pictures of them 20 years ago in libraries- still trying to find it online.

    You can not decide the sex of a god simply by the letters, but by the actualy stories. Have you forgotten that the bible is a great metaphysical reference of the downfall of the feminine in spirutality- paganism was almost always about goddess worshipping.

    names and sexes were changed to conveniently fit into the new patriarchal religion of christianity.

    #394642

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    at slavic reconstructionists who are refusing to put two and two together.

    Well put yourself
    Written sources about Veles:

    Чи ли въспети было, вещей Бояне, Велесовь внуче

    иже молѧть подъ ѡвиномъ. и ѡгневи. и виламъ и мокоши (і) симꙋ. (і) руглꙋ и перꙋнꙋ и волосꙋ скотью б҃у. (і) родꙋ и рожаницамъ (=—ѣ) и всѣмх тѣмъ иже сꙋть имъ (=тѣмъ) подобии се же оꙋчение намъ вписасѧ конець вѣкъ

    Male forms. There is no case. No implication, no nothing.

    Quote:
    You can not decide the sex of a god simply by the letters, but by the actualy stories. Have you forgotten that the bible is a great metaphysical reference of the downfall of the feminine in spirutality- paganism was almost always about goddess worshipping.

    Hm, I am acctually more introduced with Bible thany you could even imagine. That interpretations is problematic from every single angle. But it is great offtopic.

    Quote:
    names and sexes were changed to conveniently fit into the new patriarchal religion of christianity.

    Indo-Europeans were allways Patriarchl. Ancient Greeks, Romans, Slavs, Germans, Celts were in certain degree different case.
    You could allways believe what you wish, but history tell us something different.

    #394643

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well put yourself
    Written sources about Veles:

    Male forms. There is no case. No implication, no nothing.Hm, I am acctually more introduced with Bible thany you could even imagine. That interpretations is problematic from every single angle. But it is great offtopic.
    Indo-Europeans were allways Patriarchl. Ancient Greeks, Romans, Slavs, Germans, Celts were in certain degree different case.
    You could allways believe what you wish, but history tell us something different.

    it is not problematic, what is problematic is the refusal to acknowledge what pagaisms really is which is about goddess worship in relation to anything associatied with earth and the underworld and waters of life; those accounts are made from christian sources who were already trying to change history of paganism to get swept under the rug.

    Honestly, to argue that every other goddess worship of europeans celtic and nordic and bablyonian, and that suddenly, veles is only male in slavic- will make you and others sound like chauvanistic backwards fools.

    The bible is well coded- (and streamlined of all its stories and gospels with much excluded) but there are references even in there about goddess worship and female names disguised in male names and stories.

    you are getting caught up in a name and a story retold differently and indentified differntly- and not the connection of the actual stories themselves, and where they came from.

    #394644

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    it is not problematic, what is problematic is the refusal to acknowledge what pagaisms really is which is about goddess worship in relation to anything associatied with earth and the underworld and waters of life; those accounts are made from christian sources who were already trying to change history of paganism to get swept under the rug.

    Honestly, to argue that every other goddess worship of europeans celtic and nordic and bablyonian, and that suddenly, veles is only male in slavic- will make you and others sound like chauvanistic backwards fools.

    The bible is well coded- (and streamlined of all its stories and gospels with much excluded) but there are references even in there about goddess worship and female names disguised in male names and stories.

    you are getting caught up in a name and a story retold differently and indentified differntly- and not the connection of the actual stories themselves, and where they came from.

    theological historians already know that stories portrayed ( or excluded) from the bible was to keep women in a prone and submissive position- they even had a great segment on it on the history channel "banned from the bible" where there were feminist uprisings, and even from mary magdeline being an actual leader and protege of jesus. this goes on way deep. But simply in the case of veles- her story is REPEATED and FOUND in every other culture as being a female- serpentine-GODDESS.

    #394645

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    it is not problematic, what is problematic is the refusal to acknowledge what pagaisms really is which is about goddess worship in relation to anything associatied with earth and the underworld and waters of life; those accounts are made from christian sources who were already trying to change history of paganism to get swept under the rug.

    Why would Christian sources trying to change something they despised anyway? From what we know about our ancestors, they were not rally puting lot in women role in society. Staling of wiwes, having muliple wiwes, burining tham and raping them in ceremonial burrials. Also you have other IE religions and soieties. Greek religon is about godesses? Zeus father of gods and men, raping whomever he wants?

    Quote:
    Honestly, to argue that every other goddess worship of europeans celtic and nordic and bablyonian, and that suddenly, veles is only male in slavic- will make you and others sound like chauvanistic backwards fools.

    Veles have equivalent in Baltic paganism. Guess what he is he there also.
    PS thanks for label.

    Quote:
    The bible is well coded- (and streamlined of all its stories and gospels with much excluded) but there are references even in there about goddess worship and female names disguised in male names and stories.

    Godess worship in Gospels. LOL It is book about deeds of Jesus Christ. There is nothing about non-Hebrew religions there.

    Quote:
    you are getting caught up in a name and a story retold differently and indentified differntly- and not the connection of the actual stories themselves, and where they came from.

    Out of curiosity, could you gave us some example.

    Quote:
    theological historians already know that stories portrayed ( or excluded) from the bible was to keep women in a prone and submissive position- they even had a great segment on it on the history channel "banned from the bible" where there were feminist uprisings, and even from mary magdeline being an actual leader and protege of jesus. this goes on way deep. But simply in the case of veles- her story is REPEATED and FOUND in every other culture as being a female- serpentine-GODDESS.

    Excuse me, but I learnt Theology and History on University not on History channel.

    #394646

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Why would Christian sources trying to change something they despised anyway? From what we know about our ancestors, they were not rally puting lot in women role in society. Staling of wiwes, having muliple wiwes, burining tham and raping them in ceremonial burrials. Also you have other IE religions and soieties. Greek religon is about godesses? Zeus father of gods and men, raping whomever he wants?
    Veles have equivalent in Baltic paganism. Guess what he is he there also.
    PS thanks for label.

    Godess worship in Gospels. LOL It is book about deeds of Jesus Christ. There is nothing about non-Hebrew religions there.
    Out of curiosity, could you gave us some example.

    Sorry for the label, that was out of line for me- though anti femme in spirituality and patriarchal takeover of christinaity is where this mix up stems from. Now that you mention Zues, in greek mythology a "lightning god" to strike down a serpentine earthly goddess- is not far off from the daulistic relationship or perun and veles. All of which points and examples I will bring up where Veles story and references keep repeating themselves as a goddess, even in other european mythology. 

    Unforuntately because of health issues I lose a lot of memories and have amnesia, and am trying to put together all my notes and studies from years prior, and its impossibelf or me to find these pictures and resources on the internet as well.

    #394647

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Sorry for the label, that was out of line for me- though anti femme in spirituality and patriarchal takeover of christinaity is where this mix up stems from. Now that you mention Zues, in greek mythology a "lightning god" to strike down a serpentine earthly goddess- is not far off from the daulistic relationship or perun and veles.

    Rossana, conflict between Perun and Veles was because Veles stole Perun's wife. Of course, I am not forcing anyone to change his or her opinion, but that is what we could read.

    #394648

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Rossana, conflict between Perun and Veles was because Veles stole Perun's wife.

    so? wife could translate to many things. They could have been lesbians for all you know.  in reality, she could have stolen anything from perun- or maybe even something that belonged to her personally. Early texts of stories of parthonegenesis and immaculate conceptions refers to this as well, where males were later brought in to redeem and ascend them spirutality and the females helped them do it- where short after their downfall came and they required males to prorecreate. The story goes that females have to take back what originally belonged to them (ie you can translate that as sperm) or to receive what already belongs to them from males.

    and to me god is female, the original, and the creator.god is not male,or both male and female. even your y chromosome came from a female one. a true pagan would acknolwedge that  too ;)

    #394649

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    and to me god is female, the original, and the creator.god is not male,or both male and female. even your y chromosome came from a female one. a true pagan would acknolwedge that  too ;)

    Well, guess what, I am not pagan but Christian. Even more theologian.
    Anyway, Slavic religion was male centric, you could accept it or not, but it is how things were, and that is answer you will got elsewhere. I dont see any point in further discussions.

    #394650

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, guess what, I am not pagan but Christian. Even more theologian.
    Anyway, Slavic religion was male centric, you could accept it or not, but it is how things were, and that is answer you will got elsewhere. I dont see any point in further discussions.

    the point is , and there is point for further discussion- that veles is a female god. There is a reason why those game developers chose to represent her as a female as well. I don't find it "interesting" as the game forum poster mention or "different'- but really, just "logical"

    #394651

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    the point is , and there is point for further discussion- that veles is a female god. There is a reason why those game developers chose to represent her as a female as well. I don't find it "interesting" as the game forum poster mention or "different'- but really, just "logical"

    Like I said, I dont see point for discussion. On one hand you have all historians of religion and sources, on other one video game. YOu are free to believe whatever you wish. But I know whom I will trust more.

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