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  • #345899

    Anonymous

    How come there is such a great similarity between Latin servus=servants and Serb and Latin sclavus and Slav? Are the Sorbs of Germany's Lusatia and the Serbs named after Latin servus? Is srpski/serbski a word with Latin origin borrowed by Sorbs and Serbs (before splitting and before the latter arrived into the Balkans), does srpski/serbski come from Latin servus? How come there is the same relation between sclavus and Slav and servus and Serbs? Could this mean that the Serbs from Macedonia were actually Slavs=slaves=servants and not ethnic Serbs? Could this mean that the town Servia in  Macedonia meant place inhabited by Slavs and not strictly by Serbs?

    #422852

    Anonymous

    From Serbo-Croatian Srbi, from Proto-Indo-European *ser- (“to protect, watch over”); akin to Latin servo (“I guard, I protect”), Old English searu (“weapons, armor”), Lithuanian sárgas (“watchman”), Greek ἥρως (hērōs, “hero”), Avestan haraiti, haurvaiti (“he guards”).[1]

    Quote:
    Are the Sorbs of Germany’s Lusatia and the Serbs named after Latin servus?
    You mean, Romans who never were ther left name to inhabitants of some area. Seems verry ligical.

    Quote:
    Is srpski/serbski a word with Latin origin borrowed by Sorbs and Serbs (before splitting and before the latter arrived into the Balkans), does srpski/serbski come from Latin servus?
    No, why it would be b then? Why just not simply retain v?

    Quote:
    How come there is the same relation between sclavus and Slav and servus and Serbs?
    What relation? There is no any relation.

    Quote:
    Could this mean that the Serbs from Macedonia were actually Slavs=slaves=servants and not ethnic Serbs? Could this mean that the town Servia in  Macedonia meant place inhabited by Slavs and not strictly by Serbs?

    Nope. Byzantines were not speaking Latin.

    #422853

    Anonymous

    ah  ::)
    ill just quote myself from elsewhere

    name sloven was translated to latin as sclavus, and since these sclavi were, in early middle ages, commonly sold on slave markets (like in prague…) because of frequent tribal conflicts among various sloveni groups, the term sclavus, transferred to other languages (slave in english, slaaf in dutch etc) acquired the same meaning as latin servus (slave).
    later, modern umbrella terms for sloveni (in the wider sense of the word) were constructed. in english, its slavs. obviously, in real world, there arent any people who call themselves slavs.
    there are sloveni in the wider sense of the word – umbrella term for sorbs, poles, russians, serbs, bulgarians, etc
    and there are sloveni in the narrower sense – slovjaks, slovaks, slovenes. these three names are regional variants of name sloveni. these three peoples keep the original slavic (sloven) identity (albeit more or less transformed by modern concept of nation).
    formally, all these three regional names mean word-people.

    endonyms sorb, serb are unrelated to either sloven or latin term servus

    #422854

    Anonymous

    There is the same relation of between or at least similarity between Servant and Serb on the one hand and Slave and Slav on the other, servants are a kind of Slaves and Serbs/Sorbs are Slavs. This can’t be a coincidence

    Quote:
    Nope. Byzantines were not speaking Latin.

    No, but maybe in official terminology they were still using Latin when the Slavs of Bulgarian stock settled and founded Servia. I am no specialist in the history of the Byzantine Empire.
    As far as I know the “Macedonian” (including Pirin and Vardar “Macedonias”) Slavic tribe names were of Eastern group, like the ones in Moesia (greater part thereof), Thrace and present-day Eastern Slavic lands or the lands inhabited by Eastern Slavs in the 6-7th centuries. There were a few exceptions, like Polene (=Polack), White Croats both of who are now Eastern Slavs (Ukrainians) but these were exceptions, and not the rule. Besides Ukrainians can’t be both Croats and Polacks at the same time, meaning they are neither, they aren’t even Western or Southwestern Slavs
    It is quite irrelevant that the Slavs of “Macedonia” might have called themselves Serbs while the ones in Moesia and Thrace were calling themelves plainly Slavs since that doesn’t mean that the “Macedonian” Slavs were Serbs in the 6-th centuries, just like it doesn’t mean that Moesia and Thrace Slavs/Bulgarians were Slovenians in the same time period

    #422855

    Anonymous

    endonyms sorb, serb are unrelated to either sloven or latin term servus

    So we’re talking about a sheer sound, phonetic similarity between sorb, serb and servus then?
    And the second coincidence is that Servants are a kind of Slaves while Serbs/Sorbs are a subgroup of (South)Western Slavs?

    #422857

    Anonymous

    ill repeat it more simply:

    slav is an exonym (outside name). no slavs ever called themselves like that. it is english form of latin rendering of name sloven which is self-identification name (endonym).
    english term slave evolved from this latin rendering.

    self-name serb is unrelated to either sloven or latin term servus. servia is a latin rendering of serbija, because some chronicler or whoever wanted to play with words.

    #422858

    Anonymous

    What kind of similarity? Phonetic maybe, but it is dubious Servus and Srbljin do not sound close. Etymological, maybe. Semantic, no.

    Thats called false analogy. 
    I am no specialist in the history of the Byzantine Empire.

    As far as I know the “Macedonian” (including Pirin and Vardar “Macedonias”) Slavic tribe names were of Eastern group, like the ones in Moesia (greater part thereof), Thrace and present-day Eastern Slavic lands or the lands inhabited by Eastern Slavs in the 6-7th centuries. There were a few exceptions, like Polene (=Polack), White Croats both of who are now Eastern Slavs (Ukrainians) but these were exceptions, and not the rule. Besides Ukrainians can’t be both Croats and Polacks at the same time, meaning they are neither, they aren’t even Western or Southwestern Slavs

    It is quite irrelevant that the Slavs of “Macedonia” might have called themselves Serbs while the ones in Moesia and Thrace were calling themelves plainly Slavs since that doesn’t mean that the “Macedonian” Slavs were Serbs in the 6-th centuries, just like it doesn’t mean that Moesia and Thrace Slavs/Bulgarians were Slovenians in the same time period

    What it has with Serb/Servus connection? Places with Serbian names in Northern Greece appeared latter.

    #422861

    Anonymous

    although, nobody keeps you from becoming a slavic servant, vanču  :D

    #422862

    Anonymous

    And don’t forget that in Romanian servus “servant” > şerb “peasant”

    That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with your post, just pointed out that the Romance layer is not as impossible as it may seem.

    #422864

    Anonymous

    your point is….?

    #422865

    Anonymous

    I'm merely saying that there is a possibility that the whole Servia thing may have been created by a folk etymology on the Balkans themselves, in early Middle Ages.

    #422866

    Anonymous

    Yes of course, but there is problem in fact that all Serb/Serv difusion came due folk etimolog by side of emperor Constantine VII. He did not acctally know how Serbs call them selves: plural Srbalj or Srblji and singular Srbljin. As you maybe know, its time when Greek language shifted from betacism to vitacism. So, probably Byzantine Greeks encontered some Serbs who were trying to write down their tribal name in Latin charachters, and it got transliterated in Greek ones. Emperor, few hundred years latter, did know Latin, but as I said, did not know how Serbs pronounce itheir name, soe he did some experiments on folk etimology.

    And don’t forget that in Romanian servus “servant” > şerb “peasant”

    That doesn’t mean I don’t agree with your post, just pointed out that the Romance layer is not as impossible as it may seem.

    Well, places mentioned here are south of Jiriček’s line. But again, there could be some confusinon during transliteration.

    #422869

    Anonymous

    not yours, lol  ;D

    i asked the confused guy  ;D

    #422871

    Anonymous


    image

    Well we do what we must.  ;D

    #422872

    Anonymous

    Well we do what we must.  ;D

    What do you mean by that and who is “we”? Hope you think that way about yourself only.

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