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  • #344754

    Anonymous

    The Venetic theory is a widely diffused autochthonist theory of the origin of Slovenes which denies the Slavic settlement of the Eastern Alps in the 6th century, claiming that proto-Slovenes (also known as Veneti) have inhabited the region since ancient times. Although it has been rejected by scholars, it has been an influential alternative explanation of the Slovenian ethnogenesis. During the 1980s and 1990s, it gained wide attention in Slovenia and the former Yugoslavia.

    The theory was advanced in the mid 1980s by a group of Slovenian authors, notably Jožko Šavli, Matej Bor and Ivan Tomažič. In a book published in 1984, the three authors proposed an alternative view on the ethnogenesis of the Slovene people: they rejected the notion that the Slovenes were descended of Slavs who settled the area in the 6th century, claiming that the ancestors of modern Slovenes were in fact a pre-Roman people they call Veneti (which would include the Adriatic Veneti, the Baltic Veneti, the Pannonians, the Noricans and some other peoples that traditional historiography identified either as Celts or Illyrians). According to the Venetic theory, the ancient Veneti spoke a proto-Slavic language from which modern Slovene and West Slavic languages emerged.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetic_theory

    #404803

    Anonymous

    I think Slovenians are rather lucky that this theory didn't take hold earlier in their history nor was it supported by anyone of political significance. Unlike in Macedonia where Macedonism was used as a tool by Stojan Novakovic to try and Serbianize the Bulgarian majority population in Macedonia. This obviously backfired on Novakovic since Macedonism was already propagated by those from the Bitola-Lerin-Voden region and they took Macedonism to a whole new level.

    I suppose a similar comparison would be to realize Veneticism as a tool to "Croatize" the Slovenians by way of detaching the Slovenians from their original identity to a made up one which would make assimilation easier.

    #404804

    Anonymous

    Mostly they try to say that we are all Slovenes. At least that is what i recall from one of their books. They try to establish that Slavs didn't spread from beyond Carpathian but rather that Slovenes are autohtonious and that once they were spread all over Europe. They build this theory thanks to the fact these names are similar Adriatic Veneti, Baltic Veneti, Veneti in Brittany, Vandals, etc. + the fact Germans called us Windisch up to 19th century which in turn comes from old Germanic term for Slavs Wénethōz.

    Such theories are not new. In fact they began to erupt among medieval chroniclers and were very popular later as well. I believe Anton Tomaž Linhart was among those of later eras with such theories. On other hand Jernej Kopitar developed pannonian theory.

    Quote:
    I suppose a similar comparison would be to realize Veneticism as a tool to "Croatize" the Slovenians by way of detaching the Slovenians from their original identity to a made up one which would make assimilation easier.

    Well such theories exist as well and vice versa too. In any case alternative theories are among all nations.

    #404805

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Mostly they try to say that we are all Slovenes. At least that is what i recall from one of their books. They try to establish that Slavs didn't spread from beyond Carpathian but rather that Slovenes are autohtonious and that once they were spread all over Europe. They build this theory thanks to the fact these names are similar Adriatic Veneti, Baltic Veneti, Veneti in Brittany, Vandals, etc. + the fact Germans called us Windisch up to 19th century which in turn comes from old Germanic term for Slavs Wénethōz.

    Such theories are not new. In fact they began to erupt among medieval chroniclers and were very popular later as well. I believe Anton Tomaž Linhart was among those of later eras with such theories. On other hand Jernej Kopitar developed pannonian theory.

    The theory about Slavs being autochthonous is fairly appealing but I don't believe the science of theory combined being a productive practice. There's no Slavic artifacts to be found until the noted Slavic migrations during the Hunnic and Avar invasions when Slavs began to move south and west wards.

    Well such theories exist as well and vice versa too. In any case alternative theories are among all nations.

    I agree, but unfortunately for me, I have to contend with people who believe in ridiculous mythology and this is on a national level. :( Just in today, we are now also related to Achilles…

    http://mn.mk/kultura/6994-Bese-si-bila-Prikazna-za-Ahil

    #404806

    Anonymous

    Such theories were very popular among students and the younger population in the later 80ies and 90ies. It was used as a tool to make Slovenes different from Slavs, to grow a "better" national identity and justify our separation from Yugoslavia. You have a lot of bullshit theories. People read somewhere Croats and Slovenes are looking very much alike. So some Croations say Slovenes are Croats. And some Slovenes say Croats are Slovenes. In the end we are everything, except Slovenes… Marsians ::)

    #404807

    Anonymous

    It's interesting that each nation of SFRY has it's own version of super ancient History :D Also I know for such theories for Russians and Ukrainians. I could guess there is few other. But luckily, in most cases that is marginal phenomenon.

    #404808

    Anonymous

    Not a bad theory overall, it fulfilled it's political purpose I guess, and those who support it (like Hervardi guys) try to reegnite the spark of nationalism among a population heavily hogwashed by comminsts.

    However I get kinda annoyed when I see on the internet Carinthians misusing such theory to further distance themselves from the rest of Slovenia.

    #404809

    Anonymous

    Nobody has ever tried to 'Croatize' the Slovenes. Such a feat would be impossible IMO. The Slovenes are such a diverse ethnic group that the term Slovene barely encompasses all of them, let a lone Croat lol. On top of that Croats are a diverse group as well. Some absurd Croatian claims have called Slovenes 'Alpine Croats' but that's just wishful thinking. Croatian and Slovene culture intersect in Zagorje and Istria but no Slovenes or Croats are confused about who they are :). In many ways the Slovenes are our closest Slavic relatives ( at least in the northwest) and we love them for it :P.

    #404810

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Some absurd Croatian claims have called Slovenes 'Alpine Croats'

    True but we have some of such (except vice versa theories) people too. Overal all countries especially European ones have some of such people so no problem. ;D

    #404811

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Nobody has ever tried to 'Croatize' the Slovenes. Such a feat would be impossible IMO. The Slovenes are such a diverse ethnic group that the term Slovene barely encompasses all of them, let a lone Croat lol. On top of that Croats are a diverse group as well. Some absurd Croatian claims have called Slovenes 'Alpine Croats' but that's just wishful thinking. Croatian and Slovene culture intersect in Zagorje and Istria but no Slovenes or Croats are confused about who they are :). In many ways the Slovenes are our closest Slavic relatives ( at least in the northwest) and we love them for it :P.

    I could show you some evidence for "Croatising" but I don't want to quarrel again about absurd things.  ;D If you follow the politic events of Croatia – it's getting hot again at the sea… Otherwise, yes, we should be firends and be more aware of what we have in common rather than what we have not, if you ask me.  :)

    #404812

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I could show you some evidence for "Croatising" but I don't want to quarrel again about absurd things.  ;D If you follow the politic events of Croatia – it's getting hot again at the sea… Otherwise, yes, we should be firends and be more aware of what we have in common rather than what we have not, if you ask me.  :)

    Who tried to Croatize you guys? I'm genuinely curious :P Also , what exactly is Slovenia's position on the sea? I never understood it because it made little sense to me.

    #404813

    Anonymous

    My opinion is that Slovenians are right with statement that veneti=slavs. There is a lot of historical sources saying that and its accepted by people believing in slavic autochthonous theory. For example most famous :  Sclavos coinomento Vinedos (Slavs named also Vinedi) – Fredegarii Cronicon in the Seventh Century. Venedi,Vindi,Wendi,Wends,Eneti  are other versions of veneti. The problem is that there is theory of migrating slavic nations saying that slavs arrived from the east in (+-)5. century. Theory was created in 19. century and most people believes in it but before creating this theory slavs believed they are autochthonous. Another problem is that some slovenians are trying to place origin of slavs into their lands. Serbians into Serbia. Poles into Poland. Slovaks into Slovakia etc. :D

    #404814

    Anonymous

    The problem is that, AFAIK, Venetian language was Italic (that means related to Latin), not Slavic.

    #404815

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    My opinion is that Slovenians are right with statement that veneti=slavs. There is a lot of historical sources saying that and its accepted by people believing in slavic autochthonous theory. For example most famous :  Sclavos coinomento Vinedos (Slavs named also Vinedi) – Fredegarii Cronicon in the Seventh Century. Venedi,Vindi,Wendi,Wends,Eneti  are other versions of veneti. The problem is that there is theory of migrating slavic nations saying that slavs arrived from the east in (+-)5. century. Theory was created in 19. century and most people believes in it but before creating this theory slavs believed they are autochthonous. Another problem is that some slovenians are trying to place origin of slavs into their lands. Serbians into Serbia. Poles into Poland. Slovaks into Slovakia etc. :D

    The theory is good for national pride but it has many flaws. Altho it dose indeed use proper historical sources but twists them in another way. :D But yeah like being said all nations have autochthonous theories. ;D

    #404816

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Who tried to Croatize you guys? I'm genuinely curious :P Also , what exactly is Slovenia's position on the sea? I never understood it because it made little sense to me.

    The position on see is something like these. The waters "claimed by Slovenia" are really marked on our cards. The whole point is about access to international waters. It's more or less stupid allover though I strongly hold on our side. I'm not trying to claim foreign ground or anything but Piranski Zaliv was always more Slovene than Croatian so I don't see any problem why not the whole being ours up to Savudrija.  ;D
    [img width=700 height=592]http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5707/67050855.jpg” />

    You asked who tryed to Croatise our guys. I don't really have a strong oinion about that as people never speak about this and it's hard to prove but after ww2 Slovenes defenitly lived in a bigger part of Istria than today. Where are they today? I don't guilt Croatian people or government as ordinarry people peobably wouldn't do that. I believe it was an politicians elite circle with Tito of course.  True or not, it is fact that big injustice happened to Slovenes in that time.

    About the theory: It has some points in which you easily could believe and I believe dr. Šavli actually made a few real discoveries that coul help lightening up that era. But Carinthian Windische (who are nothing but Slovenes  : ) have turned it in their favour in order to distance themselves even further from the rest of us. This will inicially lead to their extintion. Of course we must have such a theory. If Croats can be Goths or Iranians, Serbs angels from heaven and Slavic Macedonians = ancient Macedonians, Slovenes can be Veneti. 

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