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  • #344972

    Anonymous

    This is a song from Zagorje that's well known. Was wondering how much of this is understood by Slovenians?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmqx4cTIzPM

    V jutro dišeče gda bregi su spali
    a mesec još zajti ni štel.
    Potiho sem otprl rasklimanu lesu
    i pinklec na pleča sem del.

    Stara je mati išla za menom,
    nemo vu zemlu gledeč.

    Ni mogla znati kaj zbirem vu duši
    I zakaj od včera nis rekel ni reč.
    Preveč smo toga povedat si šteli
    A se smo pozabili več.

    Gda smo vre prešli kraj najzadnje hiže
    vu suzah najemput sem bil.
    Kaj ne bi to vidla stara mi mati
    z rukami lice sem skril.

    Sud oko mene su disale rože
    i bil je rascveteni maj.

    A ja nis ni jemput pogledal za sobom,
    Od tuge nis mogel pozdraviti kraj,
    Samo sem bregima dragim obečal
    Da vrnul se bum nazaj.
    Samo sem bregima dragim obečal
    Da vrnul se bum nazaj.

    Thanks.

    #408203

    Anonymous

    ^ Oh man , maybe Northern Croats do speak Slovenian :P If you put the text in google translate and hit 'detect' language its goes ' Slovenian detected' lol but only translates about half the words, curiously, its the words I can understand well. :P I understand 70% of this whole thing.

    #408204

    Anonymous

    Omg Xekoslav you gonna piss off many Croatian people. :D Well to be short i understand it better than Slovene Rezijansko narečje. However some Kajkavian dialects like Bednjansko are quite extreme/hard. Overall linguistics is not sole messurment of nationality.

    #408205

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Omg Xekoslav you gonna piss off many Croatian people. :D Well to be short i understand it better than Slovene Rezijansko narečje. However some Kajkavian dialects like Bednjansko are quite extreme/hard. Overall linguistics is not sole messurment of nationality.

    Bednja is  ???. I can understand a lot of Kajkavian ( and Cakavian 90%) except when they use some local words. There are extremes in every dialect and language that literally only a single town can understand, I hear parts of Slovenia are like that.

    #408206

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Bednja is  ???

    Bednjansko narečje, sub-dialect of Kajkavian;

    Bednjanska svadba (1.dio)

    Quote:
    There are extremes in every dialect and language that literally only a single town can understand, I hear parts of Slovenia are like that.

    Yeah some dialects like Porabski, and Rezijanski are really extreme so i understand them even harder than most Kajkavci but like i said Bednjansko is very hard as well. Overal Slovene language is extremly differated dialectically. Quite frankly i don't know alot about Kajkavian dialects and their differances so it would be great we had thread bout Kajkavian dialects.

    I am really interested in Kajkavian and Čakavian. I also think and i know most Croats might consider this totally wrong or maybe even provocation that standard Croatian should be based on Ikavian Čakavian. It's really great language after all and has longest history in Croatia.

    #408207

    Anonymous

    More of Bednja –

    Čaukaj me, čaukaj Baurica

    I like how they have diphthongization. It is a typical feature of the most superior Cro/Slo dialects  8)

    #408208

    Anonymous

    Kajkavian is very differentiated as well. Just take the lord's prayer in two versions of Kajkavian :

    'Standard' Kajkavian or what most Kajkavians speak or similar to :

    Otec naš, koj si na nebesi,
    sveti se ime tvoje,
    dojdi kralestvo tvoje,
    budi vola tvoja,
    kak na nebu tak i na zemli.
    Kruha našega vsagdašnega dej
    nam denes.
    I otpusti nam duge naše,
    kak i mi otpuščamo dužnikom našim,
    i ne vpelaj nas vu skušavanje,
    nego oslobodi nas od zla.
    Amen

    Then extreme Kajkavian , probably Hungarian influenced or maybe more Slovene?:

    Japa naš kteri si f 'nebesih,
    nek sesvete ime Tvoje,
    nek prihaja cesarstvo Tvoje,
    nek bu volja Tvoja,
    kakti na nebe tak pa na zemle.
    Kruhek naš sakdajni nam
    daj denes
    ter odpuščaj nam dugi naše,
    kakti mi odpuščamo dužnikom našim,
    ter naj nas fpelati vu skušnje,
    nek nas zbavi od sekih hudobah.
    Amen.

    The first seems far more common to me. All standard Croatian speakers will have little trouble understanding it (80-90%) and interpreting it as it sounds fairly similar to the standard version. The second is far harder to understand and we will understand maybe 40%. Furthermore the Kajkavians of the first version might have a really hard time understanding the Kajkavians of the second version.

    I am really interested in Kajkavian and Čakavian. I also think and i know most Croats might consider this totally wrong or maybe even provocation that standard Croatian should be based on Ikavian Čakavian. It's really great language after all and has longest history in Croatia.

    As am I. Cakavian and Kajkavian Croats are extremely proud of their dialects and consider them just as important as Stokavian in Croatian literary history, especially cakavian.  They are right of course. And there are sub dialects such šćakavian which was very widely spoken among common folk in most parts of Croatia. Almost all Croats spoke with the Ikavian accent as its found in almost all Croatian historical writings in all three ( or four) dialects. I definitely think that Ikavian could've been our standard accent. Stokavian won the day in terms of being the standard because most nationalist literature was written in Dubrovnik before its center shifted to Zagreb. Dubrovnik's dialect was Stokavian-jekavian with some šćakavian-ikavian present as well. Add to that some of our other South Slav neighbors standardized their language on the Dubrovnik and East Herzegovian dialects which made it easier to find common identity our neighbors to the east and south. I was reading some old Cakavian literature though and I was surprised how easy it was to understand ,  I was under the impression it would be extremely difficult. I had almost no troubles ( except for some words that are archaic). All Croats should learn the beautiful diversity of our language :)

    #408209

    Anonymous
    #408210

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Kajkavian is very differentiated as well. Just take the lord's prayer in two versions of Kajkavian :

    'Standard' Kajkavian or what most Kajkavians speak or similar to :

    Otec naš, koj si na nebesi,
    sveti se ime tvoje,
    dojdi kralestvo tvoje,
    budi vola tvoja,
    kak na nebu tak i na zemli.
    Kruha našega vsagdašnega dej
    nam denes.
    I otpusti nam duge naše,
    kak i mi otpuščamo dužnikom našim,
    i ne vpelaj nas vu skušavanje,
    nego oslobodi nas od zla.
    Amen

    Then extreme Kajkavian , probably Hungarian influenced or maybe more Slovene?:

    Japa naš kteri si f 'nebesih,
    nek sesvete ime Tvoje,
    nek prihaja cesarstvo Tvoje,
    nek bu volja Tvoja,
    kakti na nebe tak pa na zemle.
    Kruhek naš sakdajni nam
    daj denes
    ter odpuščaj nam dugi naše,
    kakti mi odpuščamo dužnikom našim,
    ter naj nas fpelati vu skušnje,
    nek nas zbavi od sekih hudobah.
    Amen.
    (…)

    Well, most of the features (in the second text) making the two versions different are definitely Slavic in origin, the rest also seem to be.

    #408211

    Anonymous

    ^ Cool video!  I understood the girl reading the best ( maybe 75% or so) because it was spoken slower like other dialects of Croatian. That's interesting with the jat reflex. Not lijepo , lipo , or lepo but 'lejpo' really cool.

    Oh , I also found the Lord's Prayer in older Cakavian ( spoken as gradišćanskohrvatski) by the Croats in Burgenland. Their dialect was unaffected by the language reforms back home. ( This is more for Povhec since he's interested. Btw, I feel a new topic emerging) :P Again , it stuns me how similar it is to standard Cro today.

    Cakavian:

    Oče naš, ki si na nebesi,

    sveti se ime tvoje,
    pridi kraljevstvo tvoje,
    budi volja tvoja,
    kako na nebu tako i na zemlji.
    Kruh naš svakidanji daj nam danas,
    i otpusti nam duge naše,
    kako i mi otpušćamo dužnikom našim,
    i ne zapeljaj nas u skušavanje,
    nego oslobodi nas od zla. Amen.

    #408212

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, most of the features (in the second text) making the two versions different are definitely Slavic in origin, the rest also seem to be.

    Noo way….. It can't be, can it…… !!! :D

    #408213

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Well, most of the features (in the second text) making the two versions different are definitely Slavic in origin, the rest also seem to be.

    Yeah , but the second doesn't seem to resemble much spoken Kajkavian or kajkavian 'standard' or Slovenian. Then again, I don't know much about Slovenian, maybe its similar to some very local Slovene dialect? Or maybe Magyar influenced? I'd like to know which of all you other Slavs 'pick up' on it. Maybe that will gives us some unique insight :).

    #408214

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Noo way….. It can't be, can it…… !!! :D

    Japa? Sekih hudobah?Ancient Slavic maybe?

    #408215

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yeah , but the second doesn't seem to resemble much spoken Kajkavian or kajkavian 'standard' or Slovenian. Then again, I don't know much about Slovenian, maybe its similar to some very local Slovene dialect? Or maybe Magyar influenced? I'd like to know which of all you other Slavs 'pick up' on it. Maybe that will gives us some unique insight :).

    I definitely understand everything, morover we use Hud (hudobija) often. Although it's the first time I hear about Japa lol  ;D It's sounds funny

    #408216

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Japa? Sekih hudobah?Ancient Slavic maybe?

    In second except for Japa it's perfectlly understandable ofc. Hudoba is malice; wickedness here and hudobah is in plural (i think, i am not so good at linguistic terminology). Othervise there are no Hungar words. But what also matters is which vowels are used, etc. how is pronounced, this is fundimental question.

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