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  • #341781

    Anonymous
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    Main symbols of the Slovaks :

    – double-cross (on 3 peaks);
    – the Tatra mountains and the eagle, or more precisely Orol tatranský (the Tatra eagle);
    – rivers Dunaj, Váh…;
    – peak Kriváň;
    – town Nitra, castle Devín;
    – valaška, fujara and specific broad belt;
    – King Svätopluk, Prince Pribina

    Double-cross ‡:

    A symbol from the early Middle Ages, linked to Saints Cyril and Methodius, the Byzantine Empire, Great Moravia, ancient Slovak town Nitra, King Svätopluk and Sloveni-protoSlovaks (9.-10. cent.). Later, again from the 13. cent., double-cross symbolized the territory of present-day Slovakia (Upland, Windish Land in sources) in the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Hungary. In 1848 double-cross became a symbol of the Slovak national council (in its stamp that was confirmed by emperor Franz Joseph I). 1918-38 : state symbol of Slovakia in the first Czechoslovak republic. 1938-45 : symbol of the first Slovak republic. 1945-60 : renewed symbols of the first Czechoslovak republic. 1960-90 : ‡ was removed from the flag by communists as "a fascist symbol". 1990- : renewed ‡, that is the official symbol of Slovakia till now.

    Alternative version : ‡ is a rune of the Goddess Morena (Mara), whose cult is deep rooted in mind of the Slovaks. Every child knows who is Morena or Muriena/Marmuriena and celebration Burning of the Morena as a tradition is wide-spread in the whole country (even the media deals with it every year). After all, Christian system adapted many Pagan things.

    Double-cross on Slovak euro-coins (1€; 2 € – received the Best Trade Coin Award 2011)
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    Ancient Slovak town Nitra has its ancient white double-cross on the red background up to this day. Nitra was a seat of our rulers as Prince Pribina (the Nitrian Principality) or King Svätopluk (Regnum Slavorum).
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    Tatry and orol tatranský

    The Slovaks are identified with the Tatra mountains for many years. Mountains mean for the Slovaks a protection (majority of Slovakia is created by mountains). Orol tatranský (eagle from the Tatra) is an integral part of the Tatra.

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    Peak Kriváň

    Slovak symbol, it is said that it's a symbol of impregnability. From a legend, a guardian of Kriváň is Modroň and an incurve of the peak means that the truth is only one, although someones try to distort the truth. Pity, that many people don't know this.

    [img width=700 height=347]http://lh6.ggpht.com/_gTxHJd0Cyr4/S3COKJO53AI/AAAAAAAAAtA/RAD8_see6ds/jeho-majestatnost-Krivan.jpeg”/>

    The Valaška and broad belt

    Typical equipment of every true man.

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    The Fujara

    The fujara originated in central Slovakia as a large sophisticated folk shepherd's fipple flute of unique design. It is technically a contrabass instrument in the tabor pipe class. "The Fujara and its Music" belongs to the UNESCO heritage.

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    River Dunaj

    Although Danube flows through Slovakia only in its southwestern part, the Slovaks identify with the river very strong. After all, present-day state is a remnant of much larger territory settled by Sloveni (proto-Slovaks) that is supported also by Nestor – 'Sloveni that resides along the Danube'. Older name for Danube is Ister. It's interesting, that the Roman empire had never conquered the land northerly from the Danube which became the Limes Romanus.

    Castle Devín

    Another very important place located in the point, where the river Morava joins the river Danube and the main route of the Amber road meets the Danube route (linked up to the Silk road). Hrad Devín or Devingrad (now the ruins – destroyed by Napoleon) was and still is perceived by the Slovaks as one of their greatest national symbol. The location of Devín makes clear that it was ,as well as Bratislava, important trade centres long time ago the Magna Moravia was ever established (in Bratislava was found the only 'Celtic' monetagium in the world, in some places in Slovakia were found around 3000 'Celtic' coins). Later it was a seat of Prince Rastislav and King Svätopluk, the centre of Byzantium mission and place of probable Methodius's grave.

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    King Svätopluk

    Described by one word, King Svätopluk is a tradition. Slovak people remember his message about 3 twigs and 3 sons. The legend was even recorded by the enlightened Byzantine emperor Constantine Porphyrogenitos around the 10th century. It says that the powerful King Svätopluk asked his sons Mojmír II, Svätopluk II and Predslav to come to him before his death. He gave a twig to each of them and asked them to break it. The young noblemen could easily do it. Then he asked them to tie together three twigs and asked the sons again to break them. This task appeared to be more difficult. Thus the king demonstrated how it is necessary to be united. That only the strength of a united kingdom guarantees the country its power and prosperity.

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    Sources :
    PhDr. Dušan Škvarna, PhD. – Začiatky moderných slovenských symbolov
    Milan Igor Chovan – Strážcovia hôr

    #355086

    Anonymous

    Nice thread, Svätoslava. I just wanted to ask, when was actually first mention of term "Slovak" as ethnicity/nation?

    #355087

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Nice thread, Svätoslava. I just wanted to ask, when was actually first mention of term "Slovak" as ethnicity/nation?

    I think after fall of Great Moravia. That's why Slovak and Slovene is pretty similar to term Slav, they were the remnants of the Great Moravian kingdom so they probably just stayed recognized to themselves simply as Slavs since the Huns invaded the land and scattered the numerous Slavic tribes inside Moravia so those tribes of Moravia were forced to merge together and just called themselves Slavs, so that later developed to Slovak and Slovene maybe? I don't know really, Svätoslava knows better i guess.

    #355088

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Nice thread, Svätoslava. I just wanted to ask, when was actually first mention of term "Slovak" as ethnicity/nation?

    I am not sure about this, I do not have the propper literature here right now. But for sure it was in the same time when Polan changed to Polak, Moravan to Moravak or Rusin to Rusnak. In those times Sloven turned to Slovak. But in Slovak case it is really interesting, that only male etnonym undergone this change, while Slovak female remained "Slovenka", as well as adjective  remained "slovenský" and name of the land "Slovensko" and not Slovácko, as it should be by Slovak using grammar, if the word Slovak would be primordial.

    BTW, what I know for sure, mentioning of the word Slovak in adjective form "slowacky" apeared in polish sources when pieces of salt from southern Poland salt mines, that were not transported by Wisla river, but were smaller, thus could be carried on horsebacks through carpatians into Hungary were called "balwany slowackie". But I am not sure about the year, when it was for the first time recorded. I will let you know, when I find it.

    As a nation, in modern sense, for sure at least in 16th ct. when 95% of Slovaks converted to Lutheran faith. In those days towns all over northern part of Kingdom of Hungary, that were not under Turkish occupation abandoned using Latin and German language for official records and begun to use Slovak language for this purpose.

    #355089

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Quote:
    Nice thread, Svätoslava. I just wanted to ask, when was actually first mention of term "Slovak" as ethnicity/nation?

    I think after fall of Great Moravia. That's why Slovak and Slovene is pretty similar to term Slav, they were the remnants of the Great Moravian kingdom so they probably just stayed recognized to themselves simply as Slavs since the Huns invaded the land and scattered the numerous Slavic tribes inside Moravia so those tribes of Moravia were forced to merge together and just called themselves Slavs, so that later developed to Slovak and Slovene maybe? I don't know really, Svätoslava knows better i guess.

    You got the point here. Slovaks, Slovenians and Moravaks are direct descentdans of Geat Moravia. Deputation of Grat Moravian Duke Rastislav to Byzantinian court ( and that deputation resulted in sendin st. Cyril and Method into GM) started by sentence: We Slovene simple folk are. And how Slovene turned to Slovak I described in my previous post.

    #355090

    Anonymous

    Very logical definition, Sitnan. I can agree with this. Only reason why Slovaks/Slovenes are now considered separate ethnicity was indeed because of Hun invasion and separation. Moravian Empire thoery holds much water. Also, Southern Poles are indeed very similar to Alpine Slav types like Slovaks, Czechs and Slovenes (and Moravians if one considers them separate ethnicity) and they too were part of Moravian Empire also.

    #355091

    Anonymous

    It's such a waste actually when you think of it. I mean, Slovaks and Slovenes are basically an mixture of separate Slavic tribes which made this federation called Great Moravia, and thanks to huns they were forced to mix and lose their tribal identity and history too. Today we would maybe have a few more Slavic countries and much more cultural identities if it wasn't for that invasion.

    I mean, i am not saying it's bad that we have Slovaks and Slovenes, but i'm saying that it's bad that the tribes from which they were made of, those tribes legacies and names are lost.

    #355092

    Anonymous

    I think that above all, were it not for Huns, Slavic lands would be united and not divide into Northern (East/West) and Southern Slavs.

    #355093

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Nice thread, Svätoslava. I just wanted to ask, when was actually first mention of term "Slovak" as ethnicity/nation?

    Dziękuję :)

    I'm extending the Sitňan's post. Change of suffix happened in Slavic names around the same period, in the late Middle Ages, under the Prague's cultural influence (and thus probably under the western, German influence). Polan turned to Polak, Rusin to Rusnak, Moravan to Moravak, Slezan to Slezak and Sloven to Slovak. A name Slovak appeared in the 15. century the first time, namely in 1439 in a letter written in German language and signed by Hinko Slowak. Explicit term Slovak defined as a member of the Slovak nation can be found in the Velešin dictionary (1458) as sclavus slowak. Nevertheless, term Sloven (Slovenin) for a member of the same Slovak nation is in the Prešporok's dictionary from the late 14. century : czech Bohemus, Rutenus rusyenyn, Ungarus uher, slovyenyn Sclavus, moravecz Moravus. Sloven was used until the 16. century, since then it was definitely replaced by Slovak.

    As I wrote, the Prague's (clerical) intelligence managed the suffix modification, therefore it was spread-up step by step – at the beginning in present-day south Moravian region Slovácko, before called Moravské Slovensko (Moravian Slovakia). Moravian Sloven became (Moravian) Slovak, his wife Slovačka, his language became slovacky and his region Slovacko. Language of Moravian Slovaks is actually a dialect of Slovak language, close to its western dialect. The authors dealt with Moravian Slovakia till the 18.-19. century said that there's no difference between the language of Slovaks on both sides of river Morava. So, term Slovak started to 'expand' from Moravia to Slovakia and as Sitňan right pointed-out, Sloveni (Slovaks) east of Morava river accepted only the male form Slovak… so Slovak's wife is still until now Slovenka, his language is slovenčina, his country is Slovensko and his root is slovenský.

    By the way, some historians explain that the name Slovak was originally a derogatory word for the Sloven used by the Czechs (similar to word Čechúr, which is derogatory name for the Czech used by the Sloveni/Slovaks).

    But what about the Sloveni?
    A term Sloveni describing a tribe (or a nation, if you want) appeared first time in source Life of st. Methodius (9. cent.). Rastislav, Prince of Great Moravia is supposed to introduce himself and his retainers to Byzantine Emperor Michal III. (A.D. 863) as: "My Slovene prosta čaď …" (We Slovene (are) simple people …) and as "My Slovene od poganstva se otvrgaše…" (We Slovene (are) turning away from the paganism). We can find it also in the sources Lives of Constantin and Methodius and in the Nestor's Chronicle ("Sloveni which resides along the Danube…"). St. Constantin address the words to "Sloveni" and "slovensk narod" in his poem Proglas, the first Old Curch Slavic poem. PROGLAS, The First Old Church Slavic Poem
    In Latin and Greek sources is anything connected to Sloveni translated as Sclavae/Slavorum or Slovenicas (literas)/Stholovenikon/Slougenzin.
    E.g. in the letter by Louis the German we can read Slougenzin marcham under the rule of Prince Pribina (that originally ruled in Nitra and was expelled from there to the Pannonia) which was actually the Balaton principality (Blatnohrad). Slougenzin marcham is clear Slovenská marka. You can oppose that the Pannonia was Slovenian (the Carinthian), but the toponymic research of a Slavist Ján Stanislav (RIP) proved that the toponymy in the Panonia superior is closer to Slovak language and Slovak typical names than to Slovenian. After all, Slovenians are then well-known under the name Carinthians.
    Well, there's one very important detail which could explain many unclear matters. Nowadays, should we translate Latin term Slavorum as Slavic or 'Slovenic' (Slovak, Slovenian, Slavonian, Slowincian, Slovienian /Novgorodian/)? As I mentioned before, the Slovaks were in Latin always named as Sclavus (e.g. Privilegium pro Slavis in 1381 was a privilege granted to the Slovak inhabitants of Žilina by the King Louis I of Hungary and solved the dissatisfaction of the Slovaks with the German immigrants to the town who occupied the majority of the city council's seats). Sclavae began to be translated as Slavic as late as the 19. century by Czech nationalistic Slavists. But we have to realize that in the 9. century, each of the present-day Slavic nations had already own tribal/national name. So we must read Slavorum as slovenský if the situation requires that. It depends from the time, place and situation. Roman authors met the Sloveni sooner than e.g. the Russians, because they just were closer to the Roman empire than they. If another Slavic nations are called as Sclavae, it's probably because of the language similarity to the already well-known Sloveni, so they called them in the same way… but those tribes were already differentiated from the Sloveni by their own names (Polans…).
    Thus some authors say that The Regnum Suentebaldi (wrong called as Great Moravia! There's no evidence of the name Magna Moravia for this kingdom.) under the King Svätopluk, the greatest ruler of the Sloveni, and its another Latin name Regnum Slavorum should be translated not as the Slavic kingdom, but the 'Slovenic' kingdom -> Slovenské kráľovstvo -> the (proto)Slovak kingdom. This is supported also by Nestor who named Slovak country as Slovenskaja zemľa behind the Carpatians (from his point of view it's present-day Slovakia) – that means Slovenská zem in modern Slovak and translated into modern English Slovak land. For that reason could be Regnum Slavorum translated as Slovenské kráľovstvo (Slovak kingdom).

    There are many another examples of Sclavae=slovenský:
    10. cent. : Boemi et Sclavi defended Nitra (Slovak town) against the invasion of the proto-Magyars. The Boemi = the Czechs. The Sclavi = we would ask, what Slavs lived in Nitra then? The answer is the Sloveni (the Slovaks). As I said, we have to take a look at every situation that requires to be deeply analyzed.
    September 869 : pope Hadrian II wrote to Rastislav, Svätopluk and Koceľ (son of Pribina) "…ut in missa primo legant apostolum et evangelium Romane, dein Slovenice." – "The mass have to be performed in Roman at first, then in Slovenic (Slovak)."
    1646 : The Jakobeus' poetry – Lacrum gentis Slavonicae. Again linked up only to Slovaks.
    1746 : Slovensko-česky slowar, in Latin as Gramatica Slavice-Bohemica
    1790 : Grammar of Bernolak (a Slovak revivalist) calls Gramatica Slavica
    1825 : Bernolak wrote a dictionary Slowar Slovenski-česko-latinsko-nemecko-uherski, in Latin Lexicon Slavicum Bohemico-Latino-Germanico-Ungaricum and he define the name Slovak like that: Slavus, Slave, Slavack, Slavinus, Slavonius, Slavomier; and Slovak language: lingva slavica, sermo slavicus, die Slavische sprache.
    19. cent. : Quote of Cardinal Alexander Rudnay who was of the Slovak descent: "Slavus sum, et si in catedra Petri forem, Slavus ero." – "I am a Slovak, and I shall remain one, even if I were to sit in the Chair of Saint Peter."
    18. cent. : Battalion of American Slovaks was named Lincoln Riflemen of Slavonic Origin.
    20. cent. : Well-known Slovak pilot Milan Rastislav Štefánik wrote his nationality into a French army document as Hongrie Slave.

    If you are looking for more sources, I can search and write them some other time :)

    #355094

    Anonymous

    Very interesting reply, thanks very much! Such information is rare and because of this, Slovaks are quite unknown nation. Always interesting to read about them.

    What I learned from this is how Slovaks and Slovenes came about as separate nations also. Is there much similarity in language also, despite one being Western and other Southern Slavic?

    #355095

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Is there much similarity in language also, despite one being Western and other Southern Slavic?

    Well, Slovaks and Slovenians were separated by invasions ( both from west – Germans and east – Magyars) in times, when Slavic languages were just begining to split into three macrodialects (east, west, south). Regardless on this, I understand Slovenian much better than Croatian or Serbian. Not as good as Czech or Polish, but at least I am able to understand general concept.

    #355096

    Anonymous

    I wonder though, does Slovenian really classify as South Slavic? I can understand it also much better than Serbian or Bulgarian and to my knowledge, Slovene isn't really intelligable with other Southern Slavic languages, is it?

    #355097

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I wonder though, does Slovenian really classify as South Slavic? I can understand it also much better than Serbian or Bulgarian and to my knowledge, Slovene isn't really intelligable with other Southern Slavic languages, is it?

    It's hard to say really…Slovenian and Croatian are almost dialect wise the same thing and all Croats can understand Slovenes same as all Slovenes can understand Croats. In Croatian there are three basic dialects dialects which make our language, Kajkavica , Štokavica, and Čakavica.

    Kajkavica is practicably same as Slovene, and it's widely used in area of Zagreb, Zagorje, Međimurje, north Lika&Gorski Kotar
    Štokavica is practicably same as Serbian, and it became somewhat official dialect for literature lately, mostly used in Slavonia
    Čakavica is Dalmatian dialect, used in Dalmatia and Southern Lika&Gorski Kotar.

    But Croats use all three dialects, and understand them all. Štokavica dialect became standardized literature dialect because of 1st and 2nd Yugoslavia when the authorities were trying to find the most easiest way for Serbs and Croats to have as less as possible problems in communication. But historically Kajkavica has always been an official dialect of Croatia, it's people, it's nobility and most of the literature. Most of the old books are written in kajkavica.

    Quote:
    I think that above all, were it not for Huns, Slavic lands would be united and not divide into Northern (East/West) and Southern Slavs.

    It is very interesting actually…we had Great Moravia on the present territory of Hungary, Slovenia and Slovakia area, settled by numerous Slavic tribes which formed this federation called Great Moravia…then Croats were still west of Moravia, living in Ukraine being east-Slavs, but then we moved up to the place where present day Poland is settled there for few hundred years, and moved across friendly Great Moravia to present day location, and then the huns broke the Moravia so southern Moravian Slavs i.e. Slovenes were cut of and merged with Croats, while Slovaks with Poles…. anyway, what a mess, but i really enjoy learning and making up conclusions about this stuff, our migrations and routes are so complicated but then again so interesting to learn about.

    #355098

    Anonymous
    #355099

    Anonymous

    It's hard to say really…Slovenian and Croatian are almost dialect wise the same thing and all Croats can understand Slovenes same as all Slovenes can understand Croats. In Croatian there are three basic dialects dialects which make our language, Kajkavica , Štokavica, and Čakavica.

    Kajkavica is practicably same as Slovene, and it's widely used in area of Zagreb, Zagorje, Međimurje, north Lika&Gorski Kotar
    Štokavica is practicably same as Serbian, and it became somewhat official dialect for literature lately, mostly used in Slavonia
    Čakavica is Dalmatian dialect, used in Dalmatia and Southern Lika&Gorski Kotar.

    But Croats use all three dialects, and understand them all. Štokavica dialect became standardized literature dialect because of 1st and 2nd Yugoslavia when the authorities were trying to find the most easiest way for Serbs and Croats to have as less as possible problems in communication. But historically Kajkavica has always been an official dialect of Croatia, it's people, it's nobility and most of the literature. Most of the old books are written in kajkavica.

    It's amazing how such small country as Croatia has so much language diversity.
    Isn't it true though that Croats reformed their language after death of Yugoslavia and brought back in old Croatian words that weren't used for long time? If this is case, then I created this topic: http://www.slavorum.com/index.php/topic,294.0.html.

    I think you will find this thread very interesting. It shows that Croatian has many, many common words with Polish (and Ukrainian), which backs up thoery of Croatian origin in SE Poland/NW Ukraine.

    It is very interesting actually…we had Great Moravia on the present territory of Hungary, Slovenia and Slovakia area, settled by numerous Slavic tribes which formed this federation called Great Moravia…then Croats were still west of Moravia, living in Ukraine being east-Slavs, but then we moved up to the place where present day Poland is settled there for few hundred years, and moved across friendly Great Moravia to present day location, and then the huns broke the Moravia so southern Moravian Slavs i.e. Slovenes were cut of and merged with Croats, while Slovaks with Poles…. anyway, what a mess, but i really enjoy learning and making up conclusions about this stuff, our migrations and routes are so complicated but then again so interesting to learn about.

    Me too, it is very interesting and I believe that Slavic history receives too little focus compared with history of other European ethnicities. This example of Moravian Empire, hun invasions and how ethnogenesis of Slavic nations happened is more interesting for me than history of vikings and Anglo-Saxons. Maybe because I am Slavic. ;)

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