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  • #344105

    Anonymous

    I found these translations of Bosnian articles on one forum so I decided to share them here. Namely, monument to charter of Kulin ban was erected but without sentences linking it to Christianity. Tuzla is mostly populated with Bosnian muslims. 

    A fake Charter of Kulin Ban in Tuzla

    The Christian part of the Charter of Kulin Ban is controversial in Tuzla?!

    These days a new was monument was erected in a park in Tuzla. Nothing would be controversial here if it weren’t for an obelisk on which was inscribed the Charter of Kulin Ban. The part of the Charter that that wasn’t inscribed was, you guessed the part of the Charter that describes the Christian history of Bosnia.

    The Charter of Kulin Ban (with the text in red that was not inscribed onto the obelisk in Tuzla):

    U ime oca i s(i)na i s(ve)toga d(u)ha.

    Ja ban’ bos’n'ski Kulin’ prisezaju tebЪ kneže Kr’vašu i v’sЪm’ građam’ Dubrov’čam’ pravi prijatelj’biti vam’od’selЪ i do vЪka i pravi goj dr’žati s’vami pravu vЪeu dokolЪ s’m’ živ.

    V’si Dubrov’čane kire hode po mojemu vladanju tr’gujuće, gdЪ si kto hoće krЪvati godЪ si kto mine pravov’ vЪrov’ i pravim’ sr’(d’)cem’ dr’žati je bez’v'sakoje z’ledi raz’v'Ъ što mi k’to da svojov’ voljov’ poklon’. I da im’ne bude od’moih’čest’nikov sile I do kolЪ u mene budu dati im’s'vЪt’i pomoć’ jajire i sebЪ kolikore moge bez’ v’sega z’loga i primis’la.

    Tako mi b(og’) pomagaj i sie s(ve)t(o) evan’đelie.

    Ja Radoje dijak ban pisah’siju knjigu poveljov’ banov’ od’ roždstva H(risto)va hiljada i s’to i os’m'deset i devet’ IЪt’, mЪseca av’gusta u d’vedesete i deveti d’n', usЪčenie glave Jovana Kr’stitelja.

    The Charter’s text in English:

    In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. I, Kulin, ban of Bosnia, swear to be a true friend to you, o prince Kr'vash, and to all Dubrovnik citizens from now on and forever, and to keep true peace with you, and true faith, as long as I am alive.

    All Dubrovnik people who go through my domain trading, wherever anyone wants to move or wherever anyone passes, I will in true faith and with a true heart keep without any damage, unless someone of his own will gives me a gift, and let there be no violence against them by my officers, and as long as they are in my lands I will give them advice and help as I would to myself, as much as I am able, without any evil intention, so help me God and this holy Gospel.

    I Radoje the ban's clerk wrote this document by the command of the ban, one thousand and one hundred and eighty and nine years from the birth of Christ, the month of August, the twenty-ninth day, [the day of] the beheading of John the Baptist.

    Reactions to the Charter of Ban Kulin in the city park: pointing out the "error" with scotch tape and paper.

    In the refurbished Tuzla city park, an obelisk inscribed with the Charter of Ban Kulin was erected in front of the monument to the Bosnian King Tvrtko I Kotromanić.

    In his response to our portal, the reader, whose name is known to the editorial staff, states that the Charter as inscribed on the obelisk is incomplete.

    "The text was (un)intentionally omitted from the monument in the park. There is enough room to inscribe the entire text of the Charter, but apparently Kulin’s faith bothered someone" – suggested the reader who printed the missing parts of the text and taped it to the monument.

    "The papers are affixed with regular scotch tape so that there will be no damage to the monument itself and I hope that he won’t be prosecuted for vandalism or desecration of the monument" – states a reader who similarly sent a public message and asked the question of the ideology of the monument’s creators, and why they didn’t inscribe the entire text of the Charter on it?

    [img width=525 height=700]https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/62558_4657167550990_1612973223_n.jpg”/>

    #397162

    Anonymous

    Look at the bright side Krstjanin at least they are proud of him despite him not being ******. :D

    #397163

    Anonymous

    Lol i know the guy who put the fake papers on the monument,a croat nationalist ;)

    #397164

    Anonymous

    Besides Kulin ban was neither catholic nor orthodox but heretical bosnian church believer…the religion most bosniaks used to belong to

    #397165

    Anonymous

    Do they know that Islam reached Bosnia only after Ottoman invasions?

    #397166

    Anonymous

    Krstjanin, it still is a step in the right direction.

    – however why wasn't it written in cyrillic?

    #397167

    Anonymous

    Look at the bright side Krstjanin at least they are proud of him despite him not being ******.

    Its hard to grasp this situation, honestly. :D They are proud of their image of ban Kulin as some ruler which was same as modern bosniaks and belonged to heretical faith very close to Islam…not the real ban Kulin.

    Quote:
    Lol i know the guy who put the fake papers on the monument,a croat nationalist ;)

    Its maybe so but his orientation does not mean that he was wrong in this case. He was actually very right. ;)

    Besides Kulin ban was neither catholic nor orthodox but heretical bosnian church believer…the religion most bosniaks used to belong to

    Actually no. In the time of ban Kulin, Usora and Soli were strongholds of Catholicism and Vrhbosna was half-half.

    image

    found on the ruins of the church raised by ban Kulin.

    Siju crkv' ban' Kulin' zida
    egd… jeni Kučevsko Zagorie
    i nade na nu grom ('i) u Podgorie Sljepičišt'
    i postavi svoi obraz (na ili nad) pragom':
    B(og) dai banu Kulinu zdravie i banici Vojslavi.

    Do they know that ***** reached Bosnia only after Ottoman invasions?

    They know but if they admit what they were before the Turks then mosques and Islam will hardly find any arguments in Bosnia…

    Krstjanin, it still is a step in the right direction.

    – however why wasn't it written in cyrillic?

    Yes, I think so too…btw. for Cyrillic, look at my response to POvhec. ;)

    #397168

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Its maybe so but his orientation does not mean that he was wrong in this case. He was actually very right. ;)
    Actually no. In the time of ban Kulin, Usora and Soli were strongholds of Catholicism and Vrhbosna was half-half.

    I dont think anybody could speculate about proportion of members of Church of Bosnia and Roman Catholic.

    #397169

    Anonymous

    As far as i know Ban Kulin was not a very religious person since he changed faith many times,depending on the political situation

    in his heart he was just bosnian church believer  :) if in his time ottomans came he  would convert to ***** too

    that is why people like him even today,and he is the only middle age figure that the bosniak people still adore so to speak

    #397170

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I dont think anybody could speculate about proportion of members of Church of Bosnia and Roman Catholic.

    According to different kind of documents sent to the pope the country was "full of heretics who prefer turks over pope"

    #397171

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    As far as i know Ban Kulin was not a very religious person since he changed faith many times,depending on the political situation

    Many medieval rulers did that.

    Quote:
    in his heart he was just bosnian church believer  :) if in his time ottomans came he  would convert to ***** too

    That is just speculation. There is no way you could say this would realy happen.

    #397172

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to different kind of documents sent to the pope the country was "full of heretics who prefer turks over pope"

    Very interesting I would like to see those different kind of documents you are talking about.

    Quote:
    If in his time ottomans came he  would convert to ***** too

    He was such a stiff Christian that he even rejected the cannonical teachings of the Roman power seats, over his own, eventhough he knew he would probably benefit more by not rejecting it. What makes you believe he would by the slightest chance choose some wildcard religion he never heard of in his lands, over his own Christian one.

    P.S. There is even a written historical document from the time of the Ottoman conquest of Bosnia which I can present to you, where it is stated how Bosnians looked upon anyone who was a m[size=1pt]'[/size]uslim convert, or even just an inscript to the Ottoman army. It was not benevolent.

    #397173

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to different kind of documents sent to the pope the country was "full of heretics who prefer turks over pope"

    We weren't the only ones to be repulsed by the Catholic Church. The Dutch, north Germans and Scandinavians all had their own little sayings.

    But I can't understand why didn't they put the whole document written in Bosanćica? This is a bloody desecration  :-X

    #397174

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to different kind of documents sent to the pope the country was "full of heretics who prefer turks over pope"

    Hm, I was not talking about it. But that documents acctually do not mention Turks. Just say that Bosnia was "Christian (Roman Catholic it is) just in name", "King was affraid to acknowledge his Roman Catholic belief" and such. Bosna was not Roman Catholic for sure, nor the Orthodox. But it was not Pataren nor Bogumil either. There is historical discussion about doctrine o Bosnian Church.

    That saying about preffering Turkish turban over Cardinal hat is acctually something what said Loukas Notaros, Byzantine Admiral, few years before fall of Constantinople.

    But however, my remark was just that Bosnia was not Roman Catholic, but on other hand, it was Chrisitian without doubts. 

    #397175

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    But I can't understand why didn't they put the whole document in written in Bosanćica? This is a bloody desecration  :-X

    Probably because most people can't read Bosancica, what a shame.

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