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  • #342142

    Anonymous

    THE SARMATIANS

    [img width=700 height=337]http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Images2/Maps/Achaemenid_and_Iranic_Peoples_in_the_Ancient_World.PNG”/>

    Sarmatians, Sarmatae or Sauromatae (the second form is mostly used by the earlier Greek writers, the other by the later Greeks and the Romans) were a people whom Herodotus (4.21-117) in the 5th century BC put on the eastern boundary of Scythia beyond the Tanais (Don). They were Iranian people akin to the Scythians / Saka. The numerous Iranian personal names in the Greek inscriptions from the Black Sea Coast indicate that the Sarmatians spoke North-Eastern Iranian dialect related to Sogdian and Ossetic.

    Herodotus (4.110-117) reports a tale of the origin of the Sauromatae, as the descendants of a band of young Scythian men and a group of Amazons, in this way explaining what would have been their N.-East Iranian language – as an impure form of Scythian – and the unusual freedoms of Sauromatae women, including participation in warfare – as an inheritance from their Amazon ancestors. Later writers call some of them the "woman-ruled Sarmatae" (γυναικοκρατούμενοι). Hippocrates (De Aere, etc., 24) classes them as Scythian.

    Tacitus disparaged the Sarmatians (Germania, ch. 46) whom he placed in woodlands, not steppes, and thought had a "degraded aspect"; his picture of Sarmatians as "living on horseback and in wagons" sounds more likely.

    Later, Pausanias, viewing votive offerings near the Athenian Acropolis in the 2nd century AD (Description of Greece 1.21.5-6), found among them:

    a Sauromatic breastplate. On seeing this a man will say that no less than Greeks are foreigners skilled in the arts: for the Sauromatae have no iron, neither mined by themselves nor yet imported. They have, in fact, no dealings at all with the foreigners around them. To meet this deficiency they have contrived inventions. In place of iron they use bone for their spear-blades, and cornel-wood for their bows and arrows, with bone points for the arrows. They throw a lasso round any enemy they meet, and then turning round their horses upset the enemy caught in the lasso.

    image

    Their breastplates they make in the following fashion. Each man keeps many mares, since the land is not divided into private allotments, nor does it bear any thing except wild trees, as the people are nomads. These mares they not only use for war, but also sacrifice them to the local gods and eat them for food. Their hoofs they collect, clean, split, and make from them as it were python scales. Whoever has never seen a python must at least have seen a pine-cone still green. He will not be mistaken if he liken the product from the hoof to the segments that are seen on the pine-cone. These pieces they bore and stitch together with the sinews of horses and oxen, and then use them as breastplates that are as handsome and strong as those of the Greeks. For they can withstand blows of missiles and those struck in close combat.
     
    Pausanias' description is well borne out in a relief from Tanais, illustation top right.

    The greater part of the names occurring in the inscriptions of Olbia, Tanais and Panticapaeum are supposed to be Sarmatian, and as they have been well explained from the Iranian language now spoken by the Ossetians of the Caucasus (the Ossetic language), these are supposed to be the modern representatives of the Sarmatians and can be shown to have a direct connection with the Alans, one of their tribes.

    By the 3rd century BC the Sarmatians appear to have supplanted the Scythians proper in the plains of what is now south Ukraine, where they remained dominant until the Gothic and Hunnish invasions. Their chief divisions were the Rhoxolani; the Iazyges, with whom the Romans had to deal on the Danube and Theiss; the Taiphali; and the Alani.

    Herodotus describes Sarmatians' physical appearence as blond, stout and tanned.

    image

    Sarmatians were still a force the Romans had to reckon with in the late 4th century AD. Ammianus Marcellinus (29.6.13-14) describes a severe defeat which Sarmatian raiders inflicted upon Roman forces in the province of Valeria in Pannonia in late 374, when they almost annihilated both a legion recruited from Moesia and one from Pannonia, which had been sent to intercept a party of Sarmatians who had been pursuing a senior Roman officer named Aequitius deep into Roman territory; the two legions failed to coordinate, and their quarrelling allowed the Sarmatians to catch them unprepared and deal a stunning blow.

    The term Sarmatia is applied by later writers to as much as was known of what is Central and Eastern Europe, including all that which the older authorities call Scythia, the latter name being transferred to regions farther east. Ptolemy's Geography gave maps of European and Asiatic Sarmatia.

    http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Anthropology/Sarmatians/sarmatians.htm

    #363047

    Anonymous

    Great thread! The Samartians and the Scythians are the Slavs' closest ancestors in my opinion.

    #363048

    Anonymous

    Treasures of Sarmatians. (Language: Russian)

    Interesting documentary.

    Сокровища сарматов

    #363049

    Anonymous

    Demosthenes looked northern European, because of his mother, who had sarmatian roots.

    Sounds strange that iranic speaking people were northern looking..

    #363050

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Sounds strange that iranic speaking people were northern looking..

    Its simple linguistics don't correspond to looks.

    #363051

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Demosthenes looked northern European, because of his mother, who had sarmatian roots.

    Sounds strange that iranic speaking people were northern looking..

    I doubt Sarmatians were northern looking in a sense we perceive northerners today.  They were a union of Iranic speaking tribes who were nomads.

    The documentary presents an overview of the history of Sarmatians showing Sarmatian treasures from Azov Museum. Azov museum holds the largest collection of  Sarmatian archeological findings which it loans to many museums around Europe for exhibitions. IMO the documentary is worth to watch even it's not in English.

    #363052

    Anonymous

    Is there any connection between Sarmatians and proto-slavs?

    in terms of language and a few parts of ancient culture they were close to each other

    #363053

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Is there any connection between Sarmatians and proto-slavs?

    in terms of language and a few parts of ancient culture they were close to each other

    Slavic language belongs to a family of IE languages found in Europe. The origins of Slavic speakers should be among ancient Europeans.

    Slavs were settled people, whereas Sarmatians were nomads living in the steppes. The two groups of people belonged to different cultures. Sarmatians and Slavs met in a place settled by Slavs into which Iranic speaking peoples (possibly Sarmatians) moved or pushed by their enemies. One such group of pople consisted of Slavs and Iranic speaking peoples were the Antes people accounted in historical chronicles by Procopius and Jordanes. The Antes lived between Dnieper and Dniester Rivers in 6-7th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antes_people

    #363054

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Slavic language belongs to a family of IE languages found in Europe. The origins of Slavic speakers should be among ancient Europeans.

    Slavs were settled people, whereas Sarmatians were nomads living in the steppes. The two groups of people belonged to different cultures. Sarmatians and Slavs met in a place settled by Slavs into which Iranic speaking peoples (possibly Sarmatians) moved or pushed by their enemies. One such group of pople consisted of Slavs and Iranic speaking peoples were the Antes people accounted in historical chronicles by Procopius and Jordanes. The Antes lived between Dnieper and Dniester Rivers in 6-7th century: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antes_people

    well, i actually meant some possible more recent common roots between them, the way there were more recent common roots with Balts.

    #363055

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    well, i actually meant some possible more recent common roots between them, the way there were more recent common roots with Balts.

    Balts are still having contacts with Slavs 'getting common roots', while Sarmatians disappeared from historical chronicles in 4-5th century during migration of Goths and Huns.

    #363056

    Anonymous

    Sarmatians had R1a haplogroup as Slavic people have. Sarmatians lived at same area as slavic people.

    One of most educated person in 18.century in Europe – Matthias Bel wrote that Ruthenians are descendants of Sarmatians and they are practising old faith(PS: he wrote about subcarpatian rus area and its known that in these area there was a lot of old pagan traditions alive until first czechoslovak republic and its also documentated) and preserving original customs.

    So Sarmatians dont disappeared ,they are living among us until today ;). Btw name is explained very well in wiki : The Greek name Sarmatai sometimes appears as "Sauromatai", apparently through a folk etymology associating them with lizards (sauros). Suggestions for this association include the Sarmatians' use of reptile-like scale armour and dragon standards.[5]
    So we know that sarmatians are named according their armour and now please take a look at pictures.

    Sarmatians at Trajan column :
    image

    And now look at Kievan rus horse armour
    image

    and Body armour
    image

    #363057

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    So we know that sarmatians are named according their armour and now please take a look at pictures.

    Sarmatians at Trajan column :
    image

    And now look at Kievan rus horse armour
    image

    And here some Norman knights in armour …

    image

    image

    image

    #363058

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Sarmatians had R1a haplogroup as Slavic people have. Sarmatians lived at same area as Slavic people.

    Did historians find Sarmatians remains doing DNA tests to confirm they had R1a haplogroup? Some historians are stating that Sarmatians were a union of tribes, so some Sarmatians may had R1a, while others didn't. They were unlikely to be genetically homogeneous. Besides, there are different subclades in R1a haplogroup which diverged long before Sarmatians were around.

    It's widely accepted Ossetians are descendents of Iranic speaking that lived in Pontic-Caspian steppes. Modern-day Ossetians lack R1a haplogroup in significant numbers. But there are many people living from northern India to Central Europe having R1a haplogroup which is a truly Indo-European haplogroup.  ;) So, maybe R1a was prevalent in Sarmatian populations. Who knows?

    So Sarmatians dont disappeared ,they are living among us until today ;).

    I didn't mean Sarmatian genes disappeared. Their genes were inherited, as the genes of so many other people who lived in the past. The question is which Slavs inherited Sarmatian genes and how much of their genes were inherited. Antes is a good choice to be a mix of Slavs and Sarmatians.  :) Moreover, Sarmatians were nomads, while Slavs were settled people. The populations of settled farmers were usually larger than those of nomads roaming the steppes or hunter-gatherers living in the north. Anyway, I meant the term Sarmatian disappeared from historical chronicles.

    #363059

    Anonymous

    Some say Croats are descendants of Sarmatians…one of the theories. It is not widely accepted though.

    #363060

    Anonymous

    my  grandmother told me a few years ago she believed slavs are descendents of sarmatians i thought it was just old people babble

    but after some reading lately i strongly believe they are the closest kin of the slav people

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