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  • #342381

    Anonymous

    Hey guys, I have a historical question to ask out of curiosity.

    Were the Varangians Slavic? For those who don't know Varangians were Vikings that travelled through eastern Europe to reach Constantinople, there they served as mercenaries and even bodyguard for southern kings. Now I know the original Varangians came from Scandinavia however I read that the Rus were also Varangians and that multiple people along the baltic adopted Viking culture (long-ships etc) or learned to make them from Vikings while trading. This influence was heavy on the Rus (Russians, Ukrainians) so were they among the Varangian warriors that went south?

    #367315

    Anonymous

    The Viking influence on Rus' is totally exaggerated, I'd even say it is a myth. The Varyahi were known long before Vikings entered Slavic lands, so yes, the Varangians were Slavs.

    #367316

    Anonymous

    Really? I heard that most of the Rus was influenced off the Vikings, Rurik and his swedes who came to rule over the warring Slavic tribes. Sounds odd to me as well and I heard its just a theory but historians (western ones at least) believe it as the most probable thing.

    #367317

    Anonymous

    Why would a rich Viking Prince in Kiev Rus work as a mercenary in Constantiople?  Of course, the Varangian Guard had to be Slavic.

    #367318

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Really? I heard that most of the Rus was influenced off the Vikings, Rurik and his swedes who came to rule over the warring Slavic tribes. Sounds odd to me as well and I heard its just a theory but historians (western ones at least) believe it as the most probable thing.

    Screw this, it's bullshit. This theory makes no sense.

    #367319

    Anonymous

    why would a rich Viking Prince in Kiev Rus work as a mercenary in Constantiople?

    Kanadets he didnt. Only some Vargarians worked in "Vargarian Guard"

    I think original vargarians were scandinavian but they were "slavicised" in one generation. They were small group of traders and warriors so they didnt have "national" identity. In general people in those days didnt have same national feelings as we do. I belive they were like East India Company.

    #367320

    Anonymous

    According to the Primary Chronicle, compiled in Kiev about 1113, one group of Varangians was Rus' people. Their name became that of the land of Rus' this happened because one of Rus' princes, Rurik (Old Norse: Hrörekr) had been recognized by several East Slavic and Finno-Ugric peoples as their ruler, founding the Rurikid Dynasty, which later would rule over Rus' and after its fall over Russia for many centuries.

    The Chud, the Slovenes, the Krivichi and the Ves said “Our land is vast and abundant, but there is no order in it. Come and reign as princes and have authority over us!”’ Three brothers came with ‘their kin’ and ‘all the Rus’ in response to this invitation. Rurik set up rule in Novgorod, giving more provincial towns to his brothers. There is some ambiguity even in the Primary Chronicle about the specifics of the story, “hence their paradoxical statement ‘the people of Novgorod are of Varangian stock, for formerly they were Slovenes.’” However, archaeological evidence such as “Frankish swords, a sword chape and a tortoiseshell brooch” in the area suggest that there was, in fact, a Scandinavian population during the tenth century at the latest. The "Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project" of FamilyTreeDNA commercial genetic genealogy company reports that Y-DNA testing of the descendants of Rurikids suggests their non-slavic origin.
    [hr]

    This practice was pretty common in that time, the Bulgarian Slavs of the peninsula, had turkmenic Oghur Bulgar rulers that came from the Wolga region, aswell as the modern Hungarians, hence their names are today (Bulgarians from Bulgar and Hungarians from On'Oghur). The Hungarians aswell as the Bulgarians were Slavic people, only that the modern day Hungarians were assimilated by their Oghur ruler culture and language, while the Oghur rulers of the Bulgarians were assimilated into the Slavic culture of the Slavs, so that only the name left.

    #367321

    Anonymous

    The Varangian Guard was never that elite in poweress – after the Slavs, they mainly recruited Anglo-Saxons (who were conquered by Normans) and disaffected poor from Scandinavia.

    The main purpose of the Varangian Guard was just their foreign appearance and height (6"0 and taller and light complexion) – which made it less likely for a local Greek (they were 5"6 and smaller back then) to sneak and assassinate their Emperor (although the assassinations still occured).  It's contemporarily similiar to how Gaddafi had a bunch of Australians and Canadians for bodyguards http://intelligencenews.wordpress.com/2011/11/02/01-857/

    or how a lot of Bars and Clubs have black bouncers…

    #367322

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    According to the Primary Chronicle, compiled in Kiev about 1113, one group of Varangians was Rus' people. Their name became that of the land of Rus' this happened because one of Rus' princes, Rurik (Old Norse: Hrörekr) had been recognized by several East Slavic and Finno-Ugric peoples as their ruler, founding the Rurikid Dynasty, which later would rule over Rus' and after its fall over Russia for many centuries.

    The Chud, the Slovenes, the Krivichi and the Ves said “Our land is vast and abundant, but there is no order in it. Come and reign as princes and have authority over us!”’ Three brothers came with ‘their kin’ and ‘all the Rus’ in response to this invitation. Rurik set up rule in Novgorod, giving more provincial towns to his brothers. There is some ambiguity even in the Primary Chronicle about the specifics of the story, “hence their paradoxical statement ‘the people of Novgorod are of Varangian stock, for formerly they were Slovenes.’” However, archaeological evidence such as “Frankish swords, a sword chape and a tortoiseshell brooch” in the area suggest that there was, in fact, a Scandinavian population during the tenth century at the latest. The "Rurikid Dynasty DNA Project" of FamilyTreeDNA commercial genetic genealogy company reports that Y-DNA testing of the descendants of Rurikids suggests their non-slavic origin.
    [hr]

    This practice was pretty common in that time, the Bulgarian Slavs of the peninsula, had turkmenic Oghur Bulgar rulers that came from the Wolga region, aswell as the modern Hungarians, hence their names are today (Bulgarians from Bulgar and Hungarians from On'Oghur). The Hungarians aswell as the Bulgarians were Slavic people, only that the modern day Hungarians were assimilated by their Oghur ruler culture and language, while the Oghur rulers of the Bulgarians were assimilated into the Slavic culture of the Slavs, so that only the name left.

    Hence the rebellions from individuals like Thomas the Slav (and other Slavic rebellions).  How ironic, just like contemporary British, many of the Greeks were complaining about Slavs but apparently had no problem with Turkic people (worked out well considering the whole Ottoman Empire thing  ;) )

    #367323

    Anonymous
    Quote:

    Hence the rebellions from individuals like Thomas the Slav (and other Slavic rebellions).  How ironic, just like contemporary British, many of the Greeks were complaining about Slavs but apparently had no problem with Turkic people (worked out well considering the whole Ottoman Empire thing  ;) )

    [table]
    [tr]
    [td]The "Greeks" were unfortunately the ones responsible for the breakthrough of the Ottomans in Europe. To protect the Byzantine throne from the growing Serbian Empire and their ambition to take it over from the Palaiologos dynasty, rebuilding the Slavic Eastern Empire (after the Bulgarian one was abolished centuries ago), the Greeks invited the Ottomans (Osman on the map) that were a small turkish tribe back then as mercenaries and settled them in Rumelia (Byzantine held territory of Europe). The Serbian tsar died before he engaged any offensive; in the time of interregnum lesser despots of the empire started fighting among each other, which made it easier for the Ottomans to take over the peninsula in two decisive battles.[/td]
    [td]                [/td]
    [td][img height=300]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cf/Trebizond1300.png”/>[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    #367324

    Anonymous

    At that time, Vikings used many mercanaries in their ranks from neighbouring lands (Slavic, Baltic, Finnic, other Germanic and probably also Celtic), so IMO it was multinational group, like Joms Vikings were. Obviously, core was norse.

    Though what Sokil says also holds water, if indeed Varyahi were different ethnic group from Vikings who sailed through Kievan Rus lands, but that I am no expert of Varangian vikings, so I can say for sure.

    #367325

    Anonymous

    As far as i have read during the Varagnian siege of Constantinople the Varagnian army was composed of Scandinavians and Slavs under one banner and name, Varagnians.

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