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  • #343853

    Anonymous

    I'm interested in your oppinion which Slavic language is the hardest one to learn. Don't be angry if you think I forgot a language, please. I used only those languages who are still being spoken and are recognised as languages. That's why there is no Moravian, Rezian or others.

    Anyway, I'd like you to think about it before you vote! Don't just pick YOUR language just because it's yours and you want it to have the most votes or something… Think about (for example) being a non Slav. Which language of those above you think would be the hardest to learn. Of course you can vote for your language, if you think it's the hardest one.

    PLEASE, POST AN ARGUMENT ABOUT WHY YOU CHOOSE THIS LANGUAGE AFTER YOUR VOTE.

    Thank you. :)

    #392801

    Anonymous

    I voted for the Polish language. I think I't ste hardest because of it's graphems and phonetichs.

    #392802

    Anonymous

    The same opinion :D

    #392803

    Anonymous

    Polish, hands down.

    I can tell from personal experience that to learn how to write in perfect Polish, not make any grammatical errors and even to be able to pronounce some words (my favourite example: Grzegorz Brzęczyszczykiewicz, Chrząszczyrzewoszyce, powiat Łękołody ;D), is far more difficult for Poles than for vast majority of other people.

    Native Poles make SO many grammatical and linguistic mistakes, that and one can see it daily here. Ask Prelja.

    I myself also make mistakes often (I did spent my childhood in another country, but even living here nearly 20 years and using Polish daily, I still haven't perfected it as I would like it). Additional letter use, like ą, ć, ę, ł, ń, ó (which is identical in sound to "u", but you have to know when to use which one and there is no logic behind it ::)), ś, ż, ź, as well as sz and cz, usually has foreigners terrified even before starting to learn Polish. ;D

    Also, endings. When I started learning Polish in school, my teacher told me "Naucz się końcówków, a będziesz miał piątków jak mrówków – English translation with correct grammar should be "Learn your endings, and you will have 5's like ants"." This is grammatically horribly incorrect on purpose to try and emphasize importance of endings in Polish language, which many people still cannot perfect, even after living here whole life.

    It seems on internet, people agree with this:

    The hardest language to learn is: Polish-Seven Cases, Seven Genders and very difficult pronunciation. Average English speaker is fluent at about the age 12; the average Polish speaker is fluent in their language not until age 16. .

    http://claritaslux.com/blog/the-hardest-language-to-learn/

    This language has seven cases and Polish grammar has more exception than rules. German for example has four cases all of which are logical. Polish cases however seem to need more time and effort to learn the logical pattern (if any) or rules; you might have to learn the entire language. Polish has seven cases and Polish grammar has more exception than rules. German for example has four cases all which are logical, Polish cases seem to have no pattern or rules; you have to learn the entire language. Furthermore Polish people rarely hear foreigners speak their language, so with no accent or regional variation, pronunciation must be exact or they will have no idea what you are talking about.

    http://mylanguages.org/difficult_languages.php

    Polish is the hardest language to learn in the world

    What is the hardest language to learn for English Speakers? Take a guess; it is not Chinese or Japanese. It is Polish. Polish has seven cases and Polish grammar has more exception than rules. German for example has four cases all which are logical, seem to have no pattern or rules; you have to learn the entire language. Asia languages usually do not have cases, or at least like that.

    Polish – hardest language pronunciation

    The Pronunciation is eons harder than Asia language as it usually has long tong twisting consonants. For example a Polish sentence might look like this. Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie i Szczebrzeszyn z tego słynie. Wyindywidualizowaliśmy się z rozentuzjazmowanego tłumu.
    Further Polish people rarely hear foreign speak their language and with no accent or regional variation than pronunciation must be exact or they will have no idea what you are talking about.

    So the next time you have herd someone has learned Polish have some respect. Polish is the hardest language to learn. But the truth is I doubt you will hear a native English Speaker, speak Polish beyond a few phrases. Can it be learned? Yes you can Learn Polish. People do, it just takes humility.

    http://claritaslux.com/blog/polish-hardest-language-learn/

    The hardest language to learn is: Polish

    […]

    The average Polish speaker is fluent in their language not until age 16.

    http://www.crystalkiss.com/worlds-hardest-languages-learn/

    Polish: 17 forms. Depends on gender (3), case for all forms. Pretty much all these forms occur in regular speech (6-11 less often than the others)

    17 grammatical forms for the number 2
    dwa
    dwie
    dwoje
    dwóch (or dwu)
    dwaj
    dwiema
    dwom (or dwóm)
    dwoma
    dwojga
    dwojgu
    dwojgiem
    dwójka
    dwójki
    dwójkę
    dwójką
    dwójce
    dwójko

    Imperfect and Perfect Verbs in Polish
    Another grammatical difficulty is the concept of imperfect and perfect verbs in Polish (and other Slavic languages). The verb "to see" has two completely different verbs in Polish: widzieć and zobaczyć. The only difference is that you use the first if something happens continuously or more than once, and the second if it only happens once.

    Widziałem – I saw (repeatedly in the past, like I saw the sun come up every morning)

    Zobaczyłem – I saw (only once; I saw the sun come up yesterday)

    This is not a tense difference – the verbs themselves are different.

    There are many other examples:

    to take – brać / wziąć

    I took – Brałem (repeatedly), wziąłem (only once)

    to sigh – wzdychać / westchnąć

    I sighed – wzdychałem (repeatedly), westchnąłem

    So for every verb in English, you effectively have to learn two verbs in Polish, which often conjugate in the future tense completely differently from each other (the past tense is usually the same, which makes for relatively easy side-by-side comparisons, like above). The present tense is impossible for the perfective verb because you can not be doing something now and finish it at the same time.

    For about 5% of Polish verbs, there is no perfective version, so you luckily only have to learn one verb counterpart.

    Plural forms change based on number
    The last major wrinkle is that the plural form of nouns changes depending on the number. In English, there is only one plural form for the word "telephone" and that's "telephones", whether you have just 2 or 100. In Polish, it's 2, 3 or 4 "telefony" and 5 "telefonów". (Grammatically speaking, 2, 3 and 4 take the nominative case, while 5 and beyond take the genitive case)

    Occasionally the difference between the nominative and genitive forms makes the jump between 4 and 5 awkward sounding.

    4 or 5 hands: 4 ręce (rent-seh) but 5 rąk (ronk)

    Why is Polish so complex?
    Poland's history is one of being attacked and subjugated by its neighbors throughout most of its history, either by Germans, Austrians, Swedes or Russians. Many times the speaking of Polish was forbidden, so people were understandably protective of their language and less likely to have foreign intrusion into it. (English readily absorbs foreign words because American, Brits, Australians, etc don't feel like their language is threatened.) Also, "world languages" simplify much more rapidly, while "niche languages" don't have the same sort of pressure.

    Even the names of months, which are usually similar in all the languages of the world, retain old Slavonic forms in Polish:

    January – styczeń (from the Polish word for joining, since January joins two years together)
    February – luty (from the Polish word for freezing cold; this is the only month that is grammatically an adjective, not a noun)
    March – marzec (from Mars – the 3rd month is the Roman god Mars's month, as it is in English)
    April – kwiecień (from the Polish word for flower, since this is the month when flowers bloom)
    May – maj (the only one adopted from the Roman calendar)
    June – czerwiec (from the Polish word for reddening…named after the Polish cochineal, a red insect that is used for red dye and is harvested in June – thanks, Lola!)
    July – lipiec (from the Polish word for linden tree, which blooms in July in Poland)
    August – sierpień (from the Polish for for sickle, since this is the month of harvest)
    September – wrzesień (from the Polish word for heather, which turns a brilliant shade of purple then)
    October – październik (from the Polish word for a type of flax mulch used in the fields during this month)
    November – listopad (almost literally – falling leaves)
    December – grudzień (from the Polish word for hardened, frozen ground)

    http://livelonger.hubpages.com/hub/Most_Difficult_Languages_-_Polish

    #392804

    Anonymous

    Yes, I agree with you, though Slovenian isn't easy aswell. You at least have letters for all phonetics. We don't. "e" can mean e, ɛ or ə and "o" can be o or ɔ. We don't use `,´ and other signs to determine how a word should be pronounced. There ane nonsences like this one: we writte "prišel" but be say "prišev". We also have the dual grammatical number which most languages don't. But still, Polish is harder to learn. I know that.

    #392805

    Anonymous

    I guess Polish or Slovenian.

    #392806

    Anonymous

    I guess Polish, altough other Slavic languages also have complex grammar and specific phonetics, except analitic ones like Bulgarian and Macedonian.
    On other toght Old Chruch Slavonic and Church Slavonic have complexity of Grammar which could rival Polish (numerous participles, dual, determined and undetermined adjectivs, 38 phonemas, some wierd vowels), but they are not listed. But it is dead for centuries.

    #392807

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Yes, I agree with you, though Slovenian isn't easy aswell. You at least have letters for all phonetics. We don't. "e" can mean e, ɛ or ə and "o" can be o or ɔ. We don't use `,´ and other signs to determine how a word should be pronounced. There ane nonsences like this one: we writte "prišel" but be say "prišev". We also have the dual grammatical number which most languages don't. But still, Polish is harder to learn. I know that.

    I am sure Slovene is also tough to learn. There are quite some similarities between Polish and Slovene that I opened in another thread.

    See this link: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/False_Friends_of_the_Slavist/Polish-Slovenian

    #392808

    Anonymous

    Polish, as it looked most alien-ish to me, and it would certainly took me most time if I choose to learn one more Slavic language

    #392809

    Anonymous

    Seems, we all share that oppinion.

    Quote:
    … but they are not listed. But it is dead for centuries.

    Yes, that's why I haven't listed them. I wanted to see your reactions on living languages. Whast about Kashubian? Does it also have such complecs alphabet?

    #392810

    Anonymous

    [IMG width=200 height=150]http://i50.tinypic.com/vf8b2r.jpg” />[IMG width=200 height=150]http://i48.tinypic.com/afbuip.jpg” />[IMG width=200 height=150]http://i46.tinypic.com/2rqybgm.jpg” />

    Polish, definitely. Allthough it is still fairly easy when comparing it to some other non-slavic languages.

    #392811

    Anonymous

    No doubd about that. Anyway, I wanted to make a poll about Slavic languages as this is a Slavic forum. We could make a thread about all languages too, although it better wouldn't be poll. ;)

    #392812

    Anonymous

    Polish are just killing me with their alphabet. Do you folks try to make each letter for each sound? ;D

    To be perfectly honest i don't have a clue which Slavic language is more difficult. I can't speak any other than little bit Serbo-Croatian but i understand other Slavic languages to a fairly good degree. I can generally tell what he (another Slav) tries to say altho i cannot understand him in details.

    #392813

    Anonymous

    Polish:11

    Others: 0

    How suprising! ;D

    I agree with Povhec. I too can speak Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian pretty much and almost fully understand it though I can't say that for other Slavic languages. But still manage to understand roughly what they want to say. It's easier if you read other Slavic texts then listen to them. I've got a Prussian great aunt who speaks Polish too. But we never had conversation in Polish though. We always speak German with each other.

    #392814

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Polish are just killing me with their alphabet. Do you folks try to make each letter for each sound? ;D

    Hehe, yeah, and even more than one letter sometimes for same sound. ;)

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