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  • #345029

    Anonymous

    "Pole and Hungarian – two brothers."
    I never really understood this. Hungarians aren't even Slavs. So why do you call them brothers? I also would like to know how old is that sentence, because it would mean Hungarians = just Slavs in Hungary, no Magyars.
    I would like to know.

    #409889

    Anonymous

    Well, we have strong ties with Hungary, dating almost from the beginning of the Poland (most of deposed Polish kings/dukes escaped to Hungary). Then the Anjou empire, consisting of Hungary and Poland. Then the two Jagiellonian empires (first of Władysław V, the second after his brother Casimir IV) both ended by the death of the Jagiellonian king in a battle with Turks (Varna and Mohač). Then the rule of Transylvanian duke Stephen Bathory (which is considered one of the greatest kings of Poland). Then common struggle with the Turks. Then common struggle with the Habsburgs (the superior commander of Hungarian troops of 1848, Joseph Bem, was Polish). Then during the WW2 Hungarians were helping the Polish as well as they could (in Warsaw Uprsing there were even cases that the Hungarian soldiers attacked Germans, when Polish forces were attacked by them. And the safest rout out of the city was through the Hungarian-occupied places). Then during the Budapest uprising of 1956 Poles heavily helped the Hungarians with humanitarian aid (especially blood donations).

    As you see, of the 1000 years we were neighbours, didn't fought any serious war between, and retained friendly relations. Probably because we almost always had a common enemy (firstly Germans, then Mongols – Poland was attacked only because it was a Hungarian ally, then Turks, then Austrians).

    Moreover, they are close to us culturally (even if they speak a language noone can understand :) ), bear in mind, that Hungarians were heavily influenced by the Slavic tribes they conquered.

    #409890

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    As you see, of the 1000 years we were neighbours, didn't fought any serious war between, and retained friendly relations.

    Nah, we're your neighbours, not Hungarians XD See? Even Poles see Hungaria as Magyar country :/ Because rulers of country were Hungarians doesn't mean whole country is like that.
    I don't dislike Hungarians, though I have really plenty of reasons why I should, f.e. ruined grandma's childhood. What I dislike is what they did with Hungaria. I actually have some friends there, but we never talk about "these things", it's a big tabu.
    Pfft, I have really bad mood this week. I wonder why.

    #409891

    Anonymous

    @ tqr

    …you forgot to mention that Poles living in the kingdom of Hungary were no exception in the process of Magyarization. Yeah, most of Poles don't know a thing about it.  ;)  But I don't care, though from my experiences while staying in Hungary, Magyars didn't really like Poles (for them Slavs are just Slavs) while they would lick German toes. They didn't know too much about Poles, while I faced the same in Poland – Poles didn't know and care about Magyars either.

    However, those historical ties are based on political and aristocratic relations and as we know aristocracy and rulers were pretty mixed. Magyar dynasty died out in 1301, anyway – they were already mixed with various Slavs… oh, read Polish-Hungarian Chronicle – http://forum.slavorum.com/index.php/topic,2495.msg29344.html#msg29344  It originates in the 13th century and says how the Hungarian state started… no, it was surely not any Magyar state – the first Magyar state came into existence after WW1. Political Polish-Hungarian relations were based on a significant Slavic (thus Slovak, Ruthenian, Croatian, Serbian…) element on the Hungarian side. And that's what Magyar historians hate to hear.  ;)

    #409892

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    @ tqr

    …you forgot to mention that Poles living in the kingdom of Hungary were no exception in the process of Magyarization. Yeah, most of Poles don't know a thing about it.  ;) 

    Not strange, you're easier to forget a friend, than a foe :)

    And we don't know about any Magyarisation (friends always are saints, foes are always the devils¹), of course I'm talking about general knowledge. But well, majority of the people are fools, what to expect from them :P

    But I don't care, though from my experiences while staying in Hungary, Magyars didn't really like Poles (for them Slavs are just Slavs) while they would lick German toes. They didn't know too much about Poles, while I faced the same in Poland – Poles didn't know and care about Magyars either.

    From my knowledge it's quite opposite :) At my faculty, number of Hungarian students was higher than students from all other non-Polish countries combined. And all these Hungarians were clearly pro-Polish (but that was maybe because they chose Poland as their destination); all my friend confirm that everywhere abroad Hungarians were the friendliest (to them, when they said that they are Poles), in Budapest Hungarians often were proud that they can say something in Polish. Sad they speak that barbarian language ;)

    We probably met different Hungarians :) Or you met Hungarised Slavs, converts are the worst.

    [hr]
    ¹ Strangely, this doesn't apply to Turks. o_O

    #409893

    Anonymous

    political made brotherhoods in hungary were always funny to me ;D there is also very important brotherhood connected with magyars – turan brotherhood – they are saying that modern hungarians have same roots as turks,kazachs,tibetians etc. their historicians are saing that in past eastern and central europe was settled by magyar ("turan") people. btw Sarmatia was country of old magyars in their view and Slavic R1A haplogroup is magyar to them so also Poles are magyars to them ::) they see slavic people as enemies and stealers of their lands  :D on the other way there is polish-hungarian brotherhood and their poverb  Polak, Węgier — dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki… originates from northern hungary ( from slovak region Saris, town Presov ) when some Poles get political asyle there or something like that… In that times Slovaks were calling themselves Uhri which is known from literature from that age. Hungary has never been magyar state becouse also after magyarisation they were only at cca 30 percent of total population. First Hungary rulers and their ancestor were also not magyars but they were mixed as it was usual in that age. Stephen I. is according hungarian history as magyar but i heard also opinion that he didnt know magyar language only latin,german and language used near Nitra ( Nitrava ) where he grew up. His mother was from Poland and Stephen killed most of magyars during his rule ( really magyar hero ;D ). I agree with Svatoslava that we can talk about magyar state after world war 1. This was theirs first state there. Undoubtly since ww1 magyars sometimes helped or wanted to help to Poles. Today these brotherhoods are supported mostly at magyar side becouse of politicians. I saw many times at internet that  Poles and Magyars ( not everyone !) have complexes from history and they are thinking that all their neighbours are their enemies and they see themselves as martyrs while others are devils. Some  people/politcians also dreaming about Great Poland and Great Hungary and they are supporting these ideas. No offence but these ideas are stupid and extremistic to me.

    #409894

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    But I don't care, though from my experiences while staying in Hungary, Magyars didn't really like Poles (for them Slavs are just Slavs) while they would lick German toes. They didn't know too much about Poles, while I faced the same in Poland – Poles didn't know and care about Magyars either.
    Quote:
    From my knowledge it's quite opposite :) (…)

    My experience with Hungarians, who I met in Hungary was exactly the same. When they learned that I was from Poland, they were always very friendly and hospitable and they knew about Poland a lot. The same is when they visiting Poland. They are always welcome by the Poles very openly and friendly as well.

    What is interesting on March 12, 2007, Hungary's parliament officially declared March 23 the "Day of Hungarian-Polish Friendship". Reciprocally the Polish parliament declared that date of the "Day of Polish-Hungarian Friendship" by acclamation.

    #409895

    Anonymous

    Hungarians are cool. We've also had our problems with them in the past but its nice today that we can be civlized and even be friends. Hungary has great food , amazing looking castles , and beautiful women :). The only down side is that ugly language they speak. Had the people of Hungary not been Magyarized they would've been a Slavic nation with very rich history.

    #409896

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    Hungarians are cool. We've also had our problems with them in the past but its nice today that we can be civlized and even be friends. Hungary has great food , amazing looking castles , and beautiful women :). The only down side is that ugly language they speak. Had the people of Hungary not been Magyarized they would've been a Slavic nation with very rich history.

    I agree – golaž is great.  ;D Well, somehow they're not that bad though I don't really like them. Of all our neighbours (there're only 4  :) ), we have the least problems with them.

    #409897

    Anonymous

    dont judge hungarian language by budapest accent  ;D

    #409898

    Anonymous

    Some of my dearest friends are Magyars, quite a bit of my ex girlfriends were of their kin too xD
    So, I would say I really like them, even their weird language starts to make sense when you learn some basic vocabulary xD
    But all of them are Magyars from Vojvodina.
    According to them, there are some big differences between them and the people of Magyarosag .

    #409899

    Anonymous

    I just noticed theres a lot of Croatian towns with the Hungarian suffix -var meaning town or city.  Vukovar , Bjelovar , Daruvar. Even my hometown of Djakovo was called Djakovar at one point. I've only met Hungarians from Croatia ( Baranja) and here abroad and always thought highly of them.

    #409900

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    I just noticed theres a lot of Croatian towns with the Hungarian suffix -var meaning town or city.  Vukovar , Bjelovar , Daruvar. Even my hometown of Djakovo was called Djakovar at one point. I've only met Hungarians from Croatia ( Baranja) and here abroad and always thought highly of them.

    What about Varaždin? That sound Hungarian to me. Is it?

    #409901

    Anonymous

    Hungarian-Polish relations are well known. Personally I have nothing against it, if two nations have good relations it is only plus and should be encouraged. However before WWII Poles helped Hungarians to attack Slovakia. I just hope that next time there will be conflict (God forbid) between Slovaks and Hungarians, Poles will choose more neutral stance. It did not turned well for Poles to have unfriendly neighbour on their southern border in 1939.

    #409902

    Anonymous
    Quote:
    When they learned that I was from Poland, they were always very friendly and hospitable and they knew about Poland a lot. The same is when they visiting Poland. They are always welcome by the Poles very openly and friendly as well.

    I can't say this from personal experienced, but most of my friends who were in Hungary and said they're Slovaks, told me that reaction of Hungarians was mostly "…Oh." Physically I was only on borders in Ostrihom (Esztergom), and sellers here were something between neutral/positive. On Slovak side of border were Hungarians mostly positive. All this Slovak/Hungarian enmity are nowaday mostly just prejudices. There's kinda known quote "More far from border, more dislike." XD

    Quote:
    But all of them are Magyars from Vojvodina.
    According to them, there are some big differences between them and the people of Magyarosag .

    Hungarians in Hungary and Hungarians abroad are two (or more?) totally different nations. I heard that they even don't want to live in Hungary/become part of it.

    Also, dear Poles. You never lived with Hungarians. Not even next to them. It's very hard to be small nation, or at least be smallest of all nearby nations, and you'll just never understand this :)

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